8 ms·

That's probably not a fair question, given that you're an American. There's immediately some difference in expectations. A better question is what happens if a

by bruxis 9y ago

That's probably not a fair question, given that you're an American. There's immediately some difference in expectations. A better question is what happens if a young college grad in Japan chooses work no unnecessary overtime?

toomuchtodo 9y ago
Right! What happens in this scenario? How does this cycle get broken?
- patio11 9y ago
  What happens in this scenario? N=1 anecdote from a traditionally managed Japanese company. If you (a twenty-something Japanese man) happen to say お先に失礼します。(announcing you're leaving) at 6:00 PM in front of the company's CEO during a site visit, and the CEO says, in a shocked voice, "I suppose you have somewhere more important to be right now.", and you say "Yes, I'm going on a date.", you can look forward to six months of nuclear-tipped ostracism from your colleagues and, when you complain to management about it, they will tell you "[Foreign employee] is more Japanese than you are; ask him."
  - glandium 9y ago
    The interesting thing is that this kind of scenario (young people wanting to leave early for $reason) happen more and more, and older people put that on the Yutori education. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yutori_education https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yutori_education
laurieg 9y ago
Best case scenario: passed over for promotions, cut out of important work discussions, generally ostracized. Worst case scenario: outright abuse. Just to give you a taste of this: In a previous job in Japan there was a work party on the weekend. I told my boss "I can't got, I have something to do" (A very normal way to refuse something in Japan. The expectation is that no one will ask what your vague reason is). This boss tries to pin me down on exactly why I won't be spending my day off on this event. This leads to 6 months of going over my work with a fine tooth comb, review periods and so on.
- wapz 9y ago
  This sounds very similar to the work places I've seen in Japan, too. Essentially those who don't work as much unpaid, voluntary overtime as others don't get promotions, get shafted on bonuses, and very passive-aggressively "bullied." I'm surprised your boss tried to pressure you for info. Usually the companies that are more traditional ('non-mandatory' aka mandatory outside activities) will follow cultural norms and just do the punishment without the asking.

by bruxis 9y ago

toomuchtodo 9y ago

Right! What happens in this scenario? How does this cycle get broken?

patio11 9y ago
What happens in this scenario? N=1 anecdote from a traditionally managed Japanese company. If you (a twenty-something Japanese man) happen to say お先に失礼します。(announcing you're leaving) at 6:00 PM in front of the company's CEO during a site visit, and the CEO says, in a shocked voice, "I suppose you have somewhere more important to be right now.", and you say "Yes, I'm going on a date.", you can look forward to six months of nuclear-tipped ostracism from your colleagues and, when you complain to management about it, they will tell you "[Foreign employee] is more Japanese than you are; ask him."
- glandium 9y ago
  The interesting thing is that this kind of scenario (young people wanting to leave early for $reason) happen more and more, and older people put that on the Yutori education. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yutori_education https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yutori_education

laurieg 9y ago

Best case scenario: passed over for promotions, cut out of important work discussions, generally ostracized. Worst case scenario: outright abuse. Just to give you a taste of this: In a previous job in Japan there was a work party on the weekend. I told my boss "I can't got, I have something to do" (A very normal way to refuse something in Japan. The expectation is that no one will ask what your vague reason is). This boss tries to pin me down on exactly why I won't be spending my day off on this event. This leads to 6 months of going over my work with a fine tooth comb, review periods and so on.

wapz 9y ago
This sounds very similar to the work places I've seen in Japan, too. Essentially those who don't work as much unpaid, voluntary overtime as others don't get promotions, get shafted on bonuses, and very passive-aggressively "bullied." I'm surprised your boss tried to pressure you for info. Usually the companies that are more traditional ('non-mandatory' aka mandatory outside activities) will follow cultural norms and just do the punishment without the asking.