5 ms·

this is super backward; 30% of people approved of pulling out. It doesnt win him any support at all. Shocks me people think these things mean he can read a room

by DiNovi 9y ago

this is super backward; 30% of people approved of pulling out. It doesnt win him any support at all. Shocks me people think these things mean he can read a room.

wernercd 9y ago
I bet it's brought to you by the same polling place that gave Hillary a 96% chance of winning... What percentage of people have a clue of WTF the Paris Agreement is? What effects it will HONESTLY have? The difference between this "Accord" and an actual Treaty? Right now, 99% of what's on the news is My Team vs Your Team. Republicans Defending. Democrats Attacking. No knowledge of what's actually going on. Trump could hire Hillary to replace Comey, create peace in the middle east and give everyone a new car... and the Left would demonize him for all of it.
- elandybarr 9y ago
  Yep. I am in some tech and business world Slack groups where people were similarly ecstatic about the news. Getting out of your own filter bubbles from time-to-time is healthy.
  - DiNovi 9y ago
    your anecdote is the opposite of your recommendation... brain explodes
    - elandybarr 9y ago
      Why? I'm here and in other places with views counter to mine. There are a lot of tech for Trump folks that just keep their heads down at their jobs because they don't want the drama.
      - metafunctor 9y ago
        There are a lot of anti-Trump folks who, too, keep their heads down because they don't want the drama. Or are you suggesting that pro-Trump people are some kind of a silent majority?
        elandybarr 9y ago
        > Or are you suggesting that pro-Trump people are some kind of a silent majority? Maybe not here on this forum, but throughout the country, then absolutely yes.
        chillwaves 9y ago
        So polling, popular vote and establishment sentiment (in DC and in journalism) be damned? Can you offer one piece of evidence to support your claim? That is not an anecdote.
      - Gravityloss 9y ago
        A lot of people don't know, or at least, don't instinctively feel this. They make all kinds of jokes and don't realize it might not feel good to someone who can't say anything.
- DiNovi 9y ago
  sigh national polling wasn't wrong, and hillary won the national vote to match the polls. it was the state polling that was off; and national polls don't poll the electoral college. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/10/how-much-did-polls-miss-the-mark-on-trump-and-why/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/10/ho... Anyway, what you're saying is wrong - my parents are extremely conservative, voted trump, and are very upset about this. Why? They live in a sinking state where you can actually see climate change(LA). Many things have become factionalized - but climate and healthcare are much less than people think. I think the real problem right now is the right is engaging in identity politics and victimhood - ironically the same things they accuse others of. "Trump can never do anything right in the eyes of others" and "I like this ebcause the other side doesn't" reak of it.
  - wernercd 9y ago
    With the talk of Climate Change aside... What does the Paris Accord do? Nothing. What lawful enforcement is there to it? None. What forces countries to be accurate and honest? Nadda. How much will it actually affect "Climate Change"? Marginally. Climate and Healthcare haven't become factionalized and politicized? No offense, but what reality are you in? It sure as shit ain't the one I live in... The same Healthcare that was changed by a party line vote via the ACA? Pushed through with no bipartisan work or support? Climate change isn't either? When more than a few studies can be pinged as affected by money from one side or the other? When denying "Climate Change" gets you branded a Heretic at the same level as denying Mother Church? Name one thing the Democrats have done to work Trump since he got elected? BOTH sides are engaging in "identity politics". Neither side is willing to work together for the common good. Both sides have victimization - although I would argue that the parts on the Right are much less pronounced and "Central" to their message and platform...
    - DiNovi 9y ago
      Have fun with your just asking questions? posts, but everything you said can be easily looked up and debunked.
      - 9y ago
- yongjik 9y ago
  US has a president who said climate change is a Chinese hoax, and you demand his opponents to understand the difference between accords and treaties?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
dahdum 9y ago
The agreement would have an outsized impact on industry in the swing states that gave him the election. Was his best move if the goal is reelection.
nickik 9y ago
Just because 70% did not want to pull out does not mean they don't buy the idea that the US should renegotiate to get a better deal. With these sort of one dimensional political questions its mostly about how you ask. If it had said "Do you support the presidents effort to renegotiate the Paris treaty to get a better deal for the US?" you would have gotten 70% in the other direction. Most of these sort of 'studies' are just marketing.
- rbehrends 9y ago
  > Just because 70% did not want to pull out does not mean they don't buy the idea that the US should renegotiate to get a better deal. What "better deal"? The Paris climate agreement is entirely voluntary; each country determines its own contribution to reducing global warming and there is no enforcement mechanism. It's aspirational and America gains nothing by pulling out of it.
  - nickik 9y ago
    How is that relevant? That's not the point. My point is that you can not go by some public survey of what people want. Most people have no idea how the Paris Agreement works anyways, so it all depends on how you phrase or sell the question. We know that generally the majority people support some action in flavor of climate. So any question that is phrases in that light will reflect that and have almost nothing to do with Paris specifically. > It's aspirational and America gains nothing by pulling out of it. Who cares about America? How is that relevant to politicians? Some climat change that might happen at some point in the future when they will not be in office anymore. What even is America? The people now living in America? The future people in America that don't vote? The country itself? Non binding international agreements are about signalling and internal politics. If Trump actually believed that 70% of the people would vote against him if he pulled out of Paris he would never have done it, but that is not relevant because they want, so he doesn't care.
    - rbehrends 9y ago
      My point here is that the "idea that the US should renegotiate to get a better deal" is inherently nonsensical. You won't ask this question, because it doesn't make any sense.

by DiNovi 9y ago

this is super backward; 30% of people approved of pulling out. It doesnt win him any support at all. Shocks me people think these things mean he can read a room.

wernercd 9y ago

I bet it's brought to you by the same polling place that gave Hillary a 96% chance of winning... What percentage of people have a clue of WTF the Paris Agreement is? What effects it will HONESTLY have? The difference between this "Accord" and an actual Treaty? Right now, 99% of what's on the news is My Team vs Your Team. Republicans Defending. Democrats Attacking. No knowledge of what's actually going on. Trump could hire Hillary to replace Comey, create peace in the middle east and give everyone a new car... and the Left would demonize him for all of it.

elandybarr 9y ago
Yep. I am in some tech and business world Slack groups where people were similarly ecstatic about the news. Getting out of your own filter bubbles from time-to-time is healthy.
- DiNovi 9y ago
  your anecdote is the opposite of your recommendation... brain explodes
  - elandybarr 9y ago
    Why? I'm here and in other places with views counter to mine. There are a lot of tech for Trump folks that just keep their heads down at their jobs because they don't want the drama.
    - metafunctor 9y ago
      There are a lot of anti-Trump folks who, too, keep their heads down because they don't want the drama. Or are you suggesting that pro-Trump people are some kind of a silent majority?
      - elandybarr 9y ago
        > Or are you suggesting that pro-Trump people are some kind of a silent majority? Maybe not here on this forum, but throughout the country, then absolutely yes.
        chillwaves 9y ago
        So polling, popular vote and establishment sentiment (in DC and in journalism) be damned? Can you offer one piece of evidence to support your claim? That is not an anecdote.
    - Gravityloss 9y ago
      A lot of people don't know, or at least, don't instinctively feel this. They make all kinds of jokes and don't realize it might not feel good to someone who can't say anything.
DiNovi 9y ago
sigh national polling wasn't wrong, and hillary won the national vote to match the polls. it was the state polling that was off; and national polls don't poll the electoral college. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/10/how-much-did-polls-miss-the-mark-on-trump-and-why/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/10/ho... Anyway, what you're saying is wrong - my parents are extremely conservative, voted trump, and are very upset about this. Why? They live in a sinking state where you can actually see climate change(LA). Many things have become factionalized - but climate and healthcare are much less than people think. I think the real problem right now is the right is engaging in identity politics and victimhood - ironically the same things they accuse others of. "Trump can never do anything right in the eyes of others" and "I like this ebcause the other side doesn't" reak of it.
- wernercd 9y ago
  With the talk of Climate Change aside... What does the Paris Accord do? Nothing. What lawful enforcement is there to it? None. What forces countries to be accurate and honest? Nadda. How much will it actually affect "Climate Change"? Marginally. Climate and Healthcare haven't become factionalized and politicized? No offense, but what reality are you in? It sure as shit ain't the one I live in... The same Healthcare that was changed by a party line vote via the ACA? Pushed through with no bipartisan work or support? Climate change isn't either? When more than a few studies can be pinged as affected by money from one side or the other? When denying "Climate Change" gets you branded a Heretic at the same level as denying Mother Church? Name one thing the Democrats have done to work Trump since he got elected? BOTH sides are engaging in "identity politics". Neither side is willing to work together for the common good. Both sides have victimization - although I would argue that the parts on the Right are much less pronounced and "Central" to their message and platform...
  - DiNovi 9y ago
    Have fun with your just asking questions? posts, but everything you said can be easily looked up and debunked.
    - 9y ago
yongjik 9y ago
US has a president who said climate change is a Chinese hoax, and you demand his opponents to understand the difference between accords and treaties?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

dahdum 9y ago

The agreement would have an outsized impact on industry in the swing states that gave him the election. Was his best move if the goal is reelection.

nickik 9y ago

Just because 70% did not want to pull out does not mean they don't buy the idea that the US should renegotiate to get a better deal. With these sort of one dimensional political questions its mostly about how you ask. If it had said "Do you support the presidents effort to renegotiate the Paris treaty to get a better deal for the US?" you would have gotten 70% in the other direction. Most of these sort of 'studies' are just marketing.

rbehrends 9y ago
> Just because 70% did not want to pull out does not mean they don't buy the idea that the US should renegotiate to get a better deal. What "better deal"? The Paris climate agreement is entirely voluntary; each country determines its own contribution to reducing global warming and there is no enforcement mechanism. It's aspirational and America gains nothing by pulling out of it.
- nickik 9y ago
  How is that relevant? That's not the point. My point is that you can not go by some public survey of what people want. Most people have no idea how the Paris Agreement works anyways, so it all depends on how you phrase or sell the question. We know that generally the majority people support some action in flavor of climate. So any question that is phrases in that light will reflect that and have almost nothing to do with Paris specifically. > It's aspirational and America gains nothing by pulling out of it. Who cares about America? How is that relevant to politicians? Some climat change that might happen at some point in the future when they will not be in office anymore. What even is America? The people now living in America? The future people in America that don't vote? The country itself? Non binding international agreements are about signalling and internal politics. If Trump actually believed that 70% of the people would vote against him if he pulled out of Paris he would never have done it, but that is not relevant because they want, so he doesn't care.
  - rbehrends 9y ago
    My point here is that the "idea that the US should renegotiate to get a better deal" is inherently nonsensical. You won't ask this question, because it doesn't make any sense.