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> They still plow fields by hand or with oxen in a large area of the country. We are the most powerful nation on the planet. Obviously, there should be differen

> They still plow fields by hand or with oxen in a large area of the country. We are the most powerful nation on the planet. Obviously, there should be differences. What is that specific thing or infrastructure that china and other developing countries are missing, that makes them unable to do this (stop polluting)?

hangonhn 9y ago
Where they can't afford the more efficient methods of industrialization and must resort to the dirtier methods? Powering a country by coal is one such example. China has huge reserves of coal but little oil and natural gas. So what are they suppose to do? Renewables are expensive, although it is dropping in price, but they are also not useful at all hours and their production varies on conditions. Not all of China have plentiful sunshine. Coal is cheap, plentiful, and reliable. That's an easy choice for China. Are you saying poor countries should NOT industrialize to help save the world after the industrialized nations have had 100 years to pollute all they want and generate enormous sums of wealth in the process? Why would any developing nation sign on to that?
- babyrainbow 9y ago
  >China has huge reserves of coal but little oil and natural gas. So the real reason is not that china is a developing nation, but it has little oil and natural gas? That is not going to change, right? So you are saying that China can burn coal forever? And what happens when a country run out of oil and gas. Can it start burning coal if it is available? Doesn't this mean that the source of pollution will keep shifting perpetually, without a net reduction in emissions? Why not help these countries with setting up renewables, as much as it is possible. >Are you saying poor countries should NOT industrialize to help save the world after the industrialized nations have had 100 years to pollute all they want and generate enormous sums of wealth... No one is saying anything about stopping industrialization. But it does not make sense to exclude some countries on matters like this. The US had 100 years to pollute does not make much sense. Other countries also had 100 years to develop. That they weren't able to do so is no fault of US or other developed countries....
  - hangonhn 9y ago
    > Why not help these countries with setting up renewables, as much as it is possible. That's precisely what's in the Paris Climate Agreement. Sorry, I think we may be talking past each other and misunderstanding our views. Yes, agreed that industrialized nations should help and developing countries should cut back on dirtier methods of production. I was trying to inject the viewpoint of developing nations and underline why developing nations are getting aid and some leeway in the Paris agreement.
    - rtx 9y ago
      Give us nuclear, remove the restrictions on export.
  - conception 9y ago
    Just to pop in on this "Other countries also had 100 years to develop. That they weren't able to do so is no fault of US or other developed countries" That's a real real real strong blind spot on how Western nations have been interfering in developing nations for decades. Africa, the Middle East, Asia all have a long and storied history of the West actively interfering with their development. We 100% are now having to lay in the bed we made.
    - babyrainbow 9y ago
      >storied history of the West actively interfering with their development.... There is no blind spot. I am aware of this possibility. But that does not change a thing....That is like saying since you developing your business ate into your competitors business, you owe them something, and you have to lay low for a while while they grow their business (because of limited resources or something...)....

hangonhn 9y ago

Where they can't afford the more efficient methods of industrialization and must resort to the dirtier methods? Powering a country by coal is one such example. China has huge reserves of coal but little oil and natural gas. So what are they suppose to do? Renewables are expensive, although it is dropping in price, but they are also not useful at all hours and their production varies on conditions. Not all of China have plentiful sunshine. Coal is cheap, plentiful, and reliable. That's an easy choice for China. Are you saying poor countries should NOT industrialize to help save the world after the industrialized nations have had 100 years to pollute all they want and generate enormous sums of wealth in the process? Why would any developing nation sign on to that?

babyrainbow 9y ago
>China has huge reserves of coal but little oil and natural gas. So the real reason is not that china is a developing nation, but it has little oil and natural gas? That is not going to change, right? So you are saying that China can burn coal forever? And what happens when a country run out of oil and gas. Can it start burning coal if it is available? Doesn't this mean that the source of pollution will keep shifting perpetually, without a net reduction in emissions? Why not help these countries with setting up renewables, as much as it is possible. >Are you saying poor countries should NOT industrialize to help save the world after the industrialized nations have had 100 years to pollute all they want and generate enormous sums of wealth... No one is saying anything about stopping industrialization. But it does not make sense to exclude some countries on matters like this. The US had 100 years to pollute does not make much sense. Other countries also had 100 years to develop. That they weren't able to do so is no fault of US or other developed countries....
- hangonhn 9y ago
  > Why not help these countries with setting up renewables, as much as it is possible. That's precisely what's in the Paris Climate Agreement. Sorry, I think we may be talking past each other and misunderstanding our views. Yes, agreed that industrialized nations should help and developing countries should cut back on dirtier methods of production. I was trying to inject the viewpoint of developing nations and underline why developing nations are getting aid and some leeway in the Paris agreement.
  - rtx 9y ago
    Give us nuclear, remove the restrictions on export.
- conception 9y ago
  Just to pop in on this "Other countries also had 100 years to develop. That they weren't able to do so is no fault of US or other developed countries" That's a real real real strong blind spot on how Western nations have been interfering in developing nations for decades. Africa, the Middle East, Asia all have a long and storied history of the West actively interfering with their development. We 100% are now having to lay in the bed we made.
  - babyrainbow 9y ago
    >storied history of the West actively interfering with their development.... There is no blind spot. I am aware of this possibility. But that does not change a thing....That is like saying since you developing your business ate into your competitors business, you owe them something, and you have to lay low for a while while they grow their business (because of limited resources or something...)....