4 ms·

I'll never forget when a startup tried to poach me to be Employee #2 or 3 and refused to even match my previous salary and suggested that I really wasn't takin

by tsm 9y ago

I'll never forget when a startup tried to poach me to be Employee #2 or 3 and refused to even match my previous salary and suggested that I really wasn't taking their equity (.15%, I think?) seriously enough. I told them that if they had a billion dollar exit in five years it still wouldn't bring me up to what I wanted, and then they said, "Well, all the tech guys we talked to said $YOUR_COMPANY overpays by 20%. We also think that we're spending too much time talking about money here and are worried you have the wrong priorities".

bagels 9y ago
I had a similar offer. $0 pay and maybe 1% equity. Sent them a spreadsheet explaining how inappropriate the offer was.
- blackflame7000 9y ago
  Were any of you guys able to negotiate a better offer? I am in a similar position where I have been offered comparable salary but only 3% equity as the 4th member. Not sure it's worth giving up the job security without a higher stake.
  - startupempl0ye 9y ago
    It's not. If you are getting zero (or virtually zero) pay, you are a founder, not an employee. Founders usually get equal split.
  - morgante 9y ago
    I've negotiated with multiple founders and gotten several good offers, including $150k+ salary and single digit equity. The important part is not to fall in love with a company before an offer—a significant number of founders think engineers should work for under-market, and it's not worth talking with them.
    - blackflame7000 9y ago
      If you have the time, Id appreciate advice. I was offered low 6 figures base salary plus 3% equity for a CTO role at a startup. I would be the 4th member Joining. As I know, there is a CEO bankrolling most of it, an expert in the field of the business who is taking little pay, and a marketing guy who is unknown but most likely taking some payment. Prior to the offer letter I built a prototype (out of contract) as a sort of demonstration I could do the job. However, I wish to be compensated for the rights to the prototype upon joining as it is about 50k lines of code. What would you do in my shoes?
      - morgante 9y ago
        > I was offered low 6 figures base salary plus 3% equity for a CTO role at a startup. That's not an unreasonable offer. You should try to negotiate it up to around $150k. > However, I wish to be compensated for the rights to the prototype upon joining as it is about 50k lines of code. I'd suggest you mostly give up on that idea. It's naive thinking. The market value of this code is close to 0—it's very unlikely anyone else would want to buy it from you. At best, it's just an additional reason to hire you (instead of someone else).
        blackflame7000 9y ago
        I appreciate your insight. One thing I might add to bolster my reason for wanting compensation is that the prototype is critical to their business and without it they will be set back several months which they cannot afford. Furthermore, their vesting schedule gives them the potential to work me to death in the first year and then take everything I've built (past and future) and show me the door before anything vests. On the other hand, if I walk, I might have wasted a few months time but at least I will have comparable salary in a stable job. 3% in early seed rounds just seemed pathetic to me when my role would be vital to the companies ability to grow.
- fapjacks 9y ago
  I had the very same offer. The founder made this big brouhaha about telling everyone he wanted to compensate the engineers "very well" to build his vision, and he made a point to say the compensation would be so much better than at a typical startup. The guy had a pretty big vision for a technical product/service that would need good engineers. I nibbled the bait and found out that his "amazing compensation" was $0 salary, and 1% options! Not even shares, just regular options. Yeah, let me sign right up for the "golden" handcuffs for zero dollars. It was infuriating that a veteran startup founder would make this lowball offer to employees (not even like cofounders). I've been working in startups for twenty years, so it was astonishing bullshit to me. I'm not sure how he was able to sign anybody else on. Needless to say, that company didn't make it more than eight months. The only team he could build was really heavy on the business side, and then a couple of (obviously) incredibly inexperienced developers.
refurb 9y ago
We also think that we're spending too much time talking about money here and are worried you have the wrong priorities" That would make my blood boil. I'd probably say something like "if money isn't a big deal I'm sure you'd be fine to just give me some of your salary, right?"
- tsm 9y ago
  After a few go-rounds the CEO literally offered me $5k/yr of his own money, but this was after I'd already told them I wanted $25k more, so…

by tsm 9y ago

bagels 9y ago

I had a similar offer. $0 pay and maybe 1% equity. Sent them a spreadsheet explaining how inappropriate the offer was.

blackflame7000 9y ago
Were any of you guys able to negotiate a better offer? I am in a similar position where I have been offered comparable salary but only 3% equity as the 4th member. Not sure it's worth giving up the job security without a higher stake.
- startupempl0ye 9y ago
  It's not. If you are getting zero (or virtually zero) pay, you are a founder, not an employee. Founders usually get equal split.
- morgante 9y ago
  I've negotiated with multiple founders and gotten several good offers, including $150k+ salary and single digit equity. The important part is not to fall in love with a company before an offer—a significant number of founders think engineers should work for under-market, and it's not worth talking with them.
  - blackflame7000 9y ago
    If you have the time, Id appreciate advice. I was offered low 6 figures base salary plus 3% equity for a CTO role at a startup. I would be the 4th member Joining. As I know, there is a CEO bankrolling most of it, an expert in the field of the business who is taking little pay, and a marketing guy who is unknown but most likely taking some payment. Prior to the offer letter I built a prototype (out of contract) as a sort of demonstration I could do the job. However, I wish to be compensated for the rights to the prototype upon joining as it is about 50k lines of code. What would you do in my shoes?
    - morgante 9y ago
      > I was offered low 6 figures base salary plus 3% equity for a CTO role at a startup. That's not an unreasonable offer. You should try to negotiate it up to around $150k. > However, I wish to be compensated for the rights to the prototype upon joining as it is about 50k lines of code. I'd suggest you mostly give up on that idea. It's naive thinking. The market value of this code is close to 0—it's very unlikely anyone else would want to buy it from you. At best, it's just an additional reason to hire you (instead of someone else).
      - blackflame7000 9y ago
        I appreciate your insight. One thing I might add to bolster my reason for wanting compensation is that the prototype is critical to their business and without it they will be set back several months which they cannot afford. Furthermore, their vesting schedule gives them the potential to work me to death in the first year and then take everything I've built (past and future) and show me the door before anything vests. On the other hand, if I walk, I might have wasted a few months time but at least I will have comparable salary in a stable job. 3% in early seed rounds just seemed pathetic to me when my role would be vital to the companies ability to grow.
fapjacks 9y ago
I had the very same offer. The founder made this big brouhaha about telling everyone he wanted to compensate the engineers "very well" to build his vision, and he made a point to say the compensation would be so much better than at a typical startup. The guy had a pretty big vision for a technical product/service that would need good engineers. I nibbled the bait and found out that his "amazing compensation" was $0 salary, and 1% options! Not even shares, just regular options. Yeah, let me sign right up for the "golden" handcuffs for zero dollars. It was infuriating that a veteran startup founder would make this lowball offer to employees (not even like cofounders). I've been working in startups for twenty years, so it was astonishing bullshit to me. I'm not sure how he was able to sign anybody else on. Needless to say, that company didn't make it more than eight months. The only team he could build was really heavy on the business side, and then a couple of (obviously) incredibly inexperienced developers.

refurb 9y ago

We also think that we're spending too much time talking about money here and are worried you have the wrong priorities" That would make my blood boil. I'd probably say something like "if money isn't a big deal I'm sure you'd be fine to just give me some of your salary, right?"

tsm 9y ago
After a few go-rounds the CEO literally offered me $5k/yr of his own money, but this was after I'd already told them I wanted $25k more, so…

I'll​ never forget when a startup tried to poach me to be Employee #2 or 3 and refused to even match my previous salary and suggested that I really wasn't takin

I'll​ never forget when a startup tried to poach me to be Employee #2 or 3 and refused to even match my previous salary and suggested that I really wasn't takin

I'll never forget when a startup tried to poach me to be Employee #2 or 3 and refused to even match my previous salary and suggested that I really wasn't takin

I'll never forget when a startup tried to poach me to be Employee #2 or 3 and refused to even match my previous salary and suggested that I really wasn't takin