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You can turn off location services, however that still does not prevent your location from being tracked by your carrier. They know where you are, which tower y

You can turn off location services, however that still does not prevent your location from being tracked by your carrier. They know where you are, which tower you are connected to, etc. The only way to avoid tracking is to not carry a cell phone, simply turning off location services doesn't keep you from being tracked.

jamescostian 9y ago
Why wouldn't airplane mode solve this problem? One could argue that cellphones might secretly call home even on airplane mode and we shouldn't trust them, but then again, why couldn't one apply the same conspiracy theory against vehicles not made by Tesla?
- philsnow 9y ago
  I can easily wrap my cell phone in a Faraday cage that I'm pretty sure can't be penetrated by a malicious (or just nosey) baseband processor on the phone. It's harder to drive a car when it's wrapped in tinfoil.
politician 9y ago
As I understand it, a smartphone is also able to be tracked when the device is powered off. The only solution is to remove the battery (difficult if it's soldered), or to leave it at home. Most people don't carry portable Faraday cages.
- jamescostian 9y ago
  The part about the battery is very interesting! I googled it and couldn't find any more information though... do you have any links?
  - politician 9y ago
    Here's a link. https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130723/12395923907/even-powering-down-cell-phone-cant-keep-nsa-tracking-its-location.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130723/12395923907/even-...
    - jamescostian 9y ago
      Wow! I never heard of that. It looks like that article is about govt applying spyware to phones, like how they also made companies give them user data. By the same token, I guess the govt could work with car manufacturers to install tracking devices in every car...
      - jacquesm 9y ago
        Tesla is helping a bit here, free of charge.
- jacquesm 9y ago
  That's only true if the baseband is still alive and pinging the tower. That's easy enough to find out (field strength meter, $5 in parts next to the phone).
- Spearchucker 9y ago
  A smartphone (actually any cellphone) can be detected when it's powered off (assume flat battery), but not tracked. Works using ferromagnetism, which also detects explosives.
jacquesm 9y ago
Yes, but your carrier is in many places subject to a whole bunch of privacy legislation. The chances of your CDRs or triangulation info walking out the door there are fairly low. Compared to commercial organizations that sell your data at the drop of a hat I'd trust a cell phone provider long before I'd trust a company in some other country not beholden to local laws.
- jamescostian 9y ago
  > sell your data at the drop of a hat Tesla's privacy policy does say that this data won't be shared outside of "Tesla personnel" [0] - what evidence do you have that Tesla would break their agreement with their customers, and which law(s) in which country(s) prohibit carriers from selling location data? [0] https://www.tesla.com/about/legal https://www.tesla.com/about/legal
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    The word 'Tesla' was not in my comment, as for the second point all of Europe, and probably many other countries besides. The data can be sold but only when it is not associated with PII.
jjtheblunt 9y ago
Furthermore, they are required by federal law to do so for entirely benevolent purposes. See the E911 Mandate from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_9-1-1#Wireless_enhanced_911 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_9-1-1#Wireless_enhanc...

jamescostian 9y ago

Why wouldn't airplane mode solve this problem? One could argue that cellphones might secretly call home even on airplane mode and we shouldn't trust them, but then again, why couldn't one apply the same conspiracy theory against vehicles not made by Tesla?

philsnow 9y ago
I can easily wrap my cell phone in a Faraday cage that I'm pretty sure can't be penetrated by a malicious (or just nosey) baseband processor on the phone. It's harder to drive a car when it's wrapped in tinfoil.

politician 9y ago

As I understand it, a smartphone is also able to be tracked when the device is powered off. The only solution is to remove the battery (difficult if it's soldered), or to leave it at home. Most people don't carry portable Faraday cages.

jamescostian 9y ago
The part about the battery is very interesting! I googled it and couldn't find any more information though... do you have any links?
- politician 9y ago
  Here's a link. https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130723/12395923907/even-powering-down-cell-phone-cant-keep-nsa-tracking-its-location.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130723/12395923907/even-...
  - jamescostian 9y ago
    Wow! I never heard of that. It looks like that article is about govt applying spyware to phones, like how they also made companies give them user data. By the same token, I guess the govt could work with car manufacturers to install tracking devices in every car...
    - jacquesm 9y ago
      Tesla is helping a bit here, free of charge.
jacquesm 9y ago
That's only true if the baseband is still alive and pinging the tower. That's easy enough to find out (field strength meter, $5 in parts next to the phone).
Spearchucker 9y ago
A smartphone (actually any cellphone) can be detected when it's powered off (assume flat battery), but not tracked. Works using ferromagnetism, which also detects explosives.

jacquesm 9y ago

Yes, but your carrier is in many places subject to a whole bunch of privacy legislation. The chances of your CDRs or triangulation info walking out the door there are fairly low. Compared to commercial organizations that sell your data at the drop of a hat I'd trust a cell phone provider long before I'd trust a company in some other country not beholden to local laws.

jamescostian 9y ago
> sell your data at the drop of a hat Tesla's privacy policy does say that this data won't be shared outside of "Tesla personnel" [0] - what evidence do you have that Tesla would break their agreement with their customers, and which law(s) in which country(s) prohibit carriers from selling location data? [0] https://www.tesla.com/about/legal https://www.tesla.com/about/legal
- jacquesm 9y ago
  The word 'Tesla' was not in my comment, as for the second point all of Europe, and probably many other countries besides. The data can be sold but only when it is not associated with PII.

jjtheblunt 9y ago

Furthermore, they are required by federal law to do so for entirely benevolent purposes. See the E911 Mandate from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_9-1-1#Wireless_enhanced_911 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_9-1-1#Wireless_enhanc...