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> By default any browser would "see this information" no matter what browser you are using. Yes, but by default most browsers don't go on to use that informa

> By default any browser would "see this information" no matter what browser you are using. Yes, but by default most browsers don't go on to use that information to decide "what preferences and intent signals to expose [to advertisers] to maximize user, publisher and advertiser [and Brave's] value". >Our server side has no access to this data in the clear, nor does it have decryption keys. We do not run a MitM proxy or VPN service. See, this is the brilliant marketing I was talking about. They don't use the data serverside and expose the results to advertisers. They use it clientside and then expose the results to advertisers. The end result is exactly the same, it just sounds friendlier. The references to MitM and VPNs is just verbal chaff: they don't need to run a man-in-the-middle attack to listen in on your traffic, because the end-user software is already doing everything a MitM would have done, and then some. Now do you see the problem?

AndrewKemendo 9y ago
Not really. It seems like it's basically making everyone their own ad server in a pull process. Seems like the only way to do ad serving if you want to keep all your data private no? Otherwise they would be breaking the exposure protection if you sent your "intent" to their or another ad server. I think the trick here is that they don't want to completely break the capability for people to make money off of serving ads and people seeing those ads. So if that's the case then making everyone their own ad server makes sense.
- outsidetheparty 9y ago
  > I think the trick here is that they don't want to completely break the capability for people to make money off of serving ads and people seeing those ads. You appear to be in agreement with my original point: Brave is advertising middleware and privacy intrusion branded as an ad blocker and privacy protector.
  - AndrewKemendo 9y ago
    Except you can be both an ad blocker/privacy protector and still serve relevant ads.
    - outsidetheparty 9y ago
      Personally I prefer the ad blockers that don't serve ads and the privacy protectors that don't invade my privacy. But to each his own I guess.
      - jonathansampson 9y ago
        The default behavior of Brave is to _block ads, trackers, and fingerprinting_. The ability to show safe, relevant ads is part of a future opt-in component of Brave. As always, Brave is hosted in the open: https://github.com/brave/browser-laptop/ https://github.com/brave/browser-laptop/
        outsidetheparty 9y ago
        I'm glad to hear that ad blocking is now the default. You might consider rewriting the FAQ page that your CEO described as "out of date" which repeatedly refers to ad replacement in the present tense; I see no mention anywhere that it's "part of a future opt-in component", welcome though that news is. The blog post at https://www.brave.com/blogpost_2.html https://www.brave.com/blogpost_2.html from January also describes ad replacement as a current feature, and as the default behavior, not opt-in; and seems to indicate that it is using the tracking and fingerprinting behavior described above: > You’re game to try our default mode of operation, for a better ad-supported Web. Just leave the Replace Ads item checked. This is the default mode of operation. We insert ads after blocking without hurting page load speed, and those ads will support the sites you browse. We choose ads based on browser-private user data with no remote tracking -- not even by our servers. So I'm not entirely sure what to make of your description of it as a 'future component', as that seems in conflict with much of your marketing material. (I do see you've added a disclaimer to your "About ad replacement" page at https://brave.com/about_ad_replacement.html https://brave.com/about_ad_replacement.html which I'm pretty sure wasn't there when I made the comments you're responding to. Perhaps this is a recent change in your software? Did you used to have ad replacement built in as the default, then removed it?) (Edited to add: on closer reading I do see that that blog post is describing a "mock user interface", so perhaps I've misunderstood the mixture of present and future tense within the rest of the text as referring to actual, rather than planned, implementation. You guys could certainly stand to be a lot clearer about what your product is and isn't doing, especially since it seems to change fairly frequently.)

AndrewKemendo 9y ago

Not really. It seems like it's basically making everyone their own ad server in a pull process. Seems like the only way to do ad serving if you want to keep all your data private no? Otherwise they would be breaking the exposure protection if you sent your "intent" to their or another ad server. I think the trick here is that they don't want to completely break the capability for people to make money off of serving ads and people seeing those ads. So if that's the case then making everyone their own ad server makes sense.

outsidetheparty 9y ago
> I think the trick here is that they don't want to completely break the capability for people to make money off of serving ads and people seeing those ads. You appear to be in agreement with my original point: Brave is advertising middleware and privacy intrusion branded as an ad blocker and privacy protector.
- AndrewKemendo 9y ago
  Except you can be both an ad blocker/privacy protector and still serve relevant ads.
  - outsidetheparty 9y ago
    Personally I prefer the ad blockers that don't serve ads and the privacy protectors that don't invade my privacy. But to each his own I guess.
    - jonathansampson 9y ago
      The default behavior of Brave is to _block ads, trackers, and fingerprinting_. The ability to show safe, relevant ads is part of a future opt-in component of Brave. As always, Brave is hosted in the open: https://github.com/brave/browser-laptop/ https://github.com/brave/browser-laptop/
      - outsidetheparty 9y ago
        I'm glad to hear that ad blocking is now the default. You might consider rewriting the FAQ page that your CEO described as "out of date" which repeatedly refers to ad replacement in the present tense; I see no mention anywhere that it's "part of a future opt-in component", welcome though that news is. The blog post at https://www.brave.com/blogpost_2.html https://www.brave.com/blogpost_2.html from January also describes ad replacement as a current feature, and as the default behavior, not opt-in; and seems to indicate that it is using the tracking and fingerprinting behavior described above: > You’re game to try our default mode of operation, for a better ad-supported Web. Just leave the Replace Ads item checked. This is the default mode of operation. We insert ads after blocking without hurting page load speed, and those ads will support the sites you browse. We choose ads based on browser-private user data with no remote tracking -- not even by our servers. So I'm not entirely sure what to make of your description of it as a 'future component', as that seems in conflict with much of your marketing material. (I do see you've added a disclaimer to your "About ad replacement" page at https://brave.com/about_ad_replacement.html https://brave.com/about_ad_replacement.html which I'm pretty sure wasn't there when I made the comments you're responding to. Perhaps this is a recent change in your software? Did you used to have ad replacement built in as the default, then removed it?) (Edited to add: on closer reading I do see that that blog post is describing a "mock user interface", so perhaps I've misunderstood the mixture of present and future tense within the rest of the text as referring to actual, rather than planned, implementation. You guys could certainly stand to be a lot clearer about what your product is and isn't doing, especially since it seems to change fairly frequently.)