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This seems like the biggest win, to me. When your employer represents your important but nonessential income, while your basic survival is guaranteed, it become

This seems like the biggest win, to me. When your employer represents your important but nonessential income, while your basic survival is guaranteed, it becomes far easier to tell an asshole boss to stuff it while you go looking for new work. It becomes easier to move to a new location without getting a job in advance. It becomes easier to start your own enterprise. It even makes more sense to work part time while developing more in-demand skills or just taking a partial vacation. It opens up so many freedoms of choice that are currently only afforded to people who can make lots of excess money and stash it away as savings.

lxmorj 9y ago
As shitty as working for Uber might be, this is a huge benefit that they currently present. You can get by driving for Uber for a bit, allowing you to hold off on accepting an okay outcome and find better employment opportunities than otherwise.
- Drdrdrq 9y ago
  Except - you are not searching for opportunities, you are working. It takes your focus and time. I agree that it helps you get by, but the cost is much higher than it would be with basic income.
corford 9y ago
>It becomes easier to start your own enterprise. I lived in France for a few years and noticed something that validates this a little. French unemployment pay is quite generous (can't remember the exact figures but it's close to or 100% of your last salary for 12 months) - effectively quasi UBI for a year. I knew a lot of 'twenty somethings' that used this cushion to give them 12 months runway to try their hand at a startup.
- ttoinou 9y ago
  ... or going abroad travelling & woofing. Which is also a rationale behavior. Did your friends keep the unemployment allowance while creating a new company ?
  - corford 9y ago
    No idea how it worked in detail (they were mainly acquaintances I met at meetups/co-working spaces). It just seemed like a right of passage - virtually everyone I met had bootstrapped their 2-5 person teams with guys & gals that were living off their unemployment allowances for a year (and so were fine taking equity and no salary for a while).
  - Jacqued 9y ago
    Yes. You even get a better replacement rate when you create a company than when you're unemployed and looking for work. If you held salaried work for long enough before, it will last for two whole years. We often joke in France that the unemployment agency is the #1 startup investor in the country
folli 9y ago
If this is the main feature of UBI (guaranteed basic survival), then what's the difference to the current social systems as applied in several western european countries (e.g. scandinavian, french, german, swiss...). A "basic income" is in so far guaranteed that you will always have enough money for a roof over your head and enough food on the table. If your employer truly abuses your workforce, you are able to quit without the fear of becoming homeless and go hungry.
- treerock 9y ago
  Not an expert, but in the UK the benefits system isn't 'universal', you have to meet certain qualification criteria. So if you quit your job because your boss is an arsehole or to start up your own business, you don't receive those benefits.
- bryondowd 9y ago
  I think the main benefit over most welfare systems is that your save overhead by giving it unconditionally to everyone rather than having to evaluate every case, while at the same time it prevents people from falling through the cracks on technicalities.

lxmorj 9y ago

As shitty as working for Uber might be, this is a huge benefit that they currently present. You can get by driving for Uber for a bit, allowing you to hold off on accepting an okay outcome and find better employment opportunities than otherwise.

Drdrdrq 9y ago
Except - you are not searching for opportunities, you are working. It takes your focus and time. I agree that it helps you get by, but the cost is much higher than it would be with basic income.

corford 9y ago

>It becomes easier to start your own enterprise. I lived in France for a few years and noticed something that validates this a little. French unemployment pay is quite generous (can't remember the exact figures but it's close to or 100% of your last salary for 12 months) - effectively quasi UBI for a year. I knew a lot of 'twenty somethings' that used this cushion to give them 12 months runway to try their hand at a startup.

ttoinou 9y ago
... or going abroad travelling & woofing. Which is also a rationale behavior. Did your friends keep the unemployment allowance while creating a new company ?
- corford 9y ago
  No idea how it worked in detail (they were mainly acquaintances I met at meetups/co-working spaces). It just seemed like a right of passage - virtually everyone I met had bootstrapped their 2-5 person teams with guys & gals that were living off their unemployment allowances for a year (and so were fine taking equity and no salary for a while).
- Jacqued 9y ago
  Yes. You even get a better replacement rate when you create a company than when you're unemployed and looking for work. If you held salaried work for long enough before, it will last for two whole years. We often joke in France that the unemployment agency is the #1 startup investor in the country

folli 9y ago

If this is the main feature of UBI (guaranteed basic survival), then what's the difference to the current social systems as applied in several western european countries (e.g. scandinavian, french, german, swiss...). A "basic income" is in so far guaranteed that you will always have enough money for a roof over your head and enough food on the table. If your employer truly abuses your workforce, you are able to quit without the fear of becoming homeless and go hungry.

treerock 9y ago
Not an expert, but in the UK the benefits system isn't 'universal', you have to meet certain qualification criteria. So if you quit your job because your boss is an arsehole or to start up your own business, you don't receive those benefits.
bryondowd 9y ago
I think the main benefit over most welfare systems is that your save overhead by giving it unconditionally to everyone rather than having to evaluate every case, while at the same time it prevents people from falling through the cracks on technicalities.