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Thank you for your advice. Along with doing this business I do run a fairly good freelance business to make up for the lack of pay. The freelance work is what r

Thank you for your advice. Along with doing this business I do run a fairly good freelance business to make up for the lack of pay. The freelance work is what really makes me happy. The clients are always great and seem to love the attention I give them and the work I generate for them. However it does make it a bit hard mentally and physically for me and my family. Getting home at six, seeing my family for three or four hours and then working until 3AM each night gets daunting.

RBerenguel 16y ago
Can't you witch to working full-time in your freelancing? I don't know if you can get more clients straight away, maybe (if your relation is good enough with them) you can ask your current clients for work recommendations, bootstrapping even more your full-time freelancing. I don't know the legalities and other related things aside, but I would make a rebellion, although you look in the worst position (you are being paid the same as a fresh recruit, come on!)... Walking straight to the boss and telling him either to raise pays or everybody leaves could be quite effective. And of course, 8 people talking shit about a startup can build quite a lot of momentum to keep him from getting any more job candidates/clients.
- datawalke 16y ago
  I do believe life is a good deal of weighing risks and taking them at a period of time. Jumping right off to freelancing would be too uncertain at the moment. Bills come to around $1,500/mo. Freelancing at the moment generates around $900-$1200/mo. But I currently only have the bandwidth to handle 1 or 2 projects per month. On the rebellion side I would not feel ethical doing so. I don't want this guy's business to crash and burn. It does honestly provide a solution to a need in the industry and the product is of high quality. As much as I sometimes wish I was, I'm not that much of a dick to cause trouble. (Plus there may be some movement there of a lawsuit or something that would make me overly nervous.) I do have a feeling however that me leaving this company will have a snowball effect on the others there.
  - bensummers 16y ago
    If the product is as good as you say it is, there should be plenty of money to pay well. And paying people well should increase the quality further: if you don't have to worry about basic needs you've got more bandwidth for being technically excellent. Don't feel bad about 'rebellion', loyalty should be both ways and respect must be earned. Stand up for yourself!
    - jtheory 16y ago
      <i>If the product is as good as you say it is, there should be plenty of money to pay well.</i> It sounds to me like this business is currently failing, but your boss is "faking it" by exploiting you; he might just as well be paying you normally but keeping the doors open by draining his grandmother's bank account. It might not be a problem with the product -- after all, the client list is growing swiftly. Simply put, he needs to either find the money to pay for what he's demanding from you, or he needs to close up shop. He might need a loan or investment to cover the gap until you are cashflow positive, but in this case he is stealing from you instead. It's not even an "investment" on your part, because he seems to have utterly no intent to pay you back. That's just stealing. For comparison, in an honest situation, he would be either: * paying you a normal salary as an employee * paying you a higher rate as a 1099 contractor (to account for your reduced security and benefits) * or paying you less but accepting the difference as your personal investment in the company -- so like any investment, if the risk pays off, you would be paid back MORE than your investment in the future. This would be formalized by giving you shares, etc. (and you should be able to calculate how/when you would be repaid).
  - RBerenguel 16y ago
    I agree with bensummers. It is not about being a dick, it is about being treated fairly. You have been severely underpaid for a long time, and he acts like you can't have a life of your own but just be a robot-like jack-of-all-trades. If my boss didn't pay for my health bill and asked me to work while at the hospital I would definitely not let it go like that, you are a human being, moreover, you are helping him to get money. And you are almost getting no money back. As about lawsuits, it greatly depends on how you focus it. You are being exploited, you know it (and he knows it). You could probably sue him right now. And telling your colleagues about how work was like there is not unethical, nor illegal, it is helpful for them. Couldn't you just balance on paying for more bandwidth (don't know the prices where you live) with just more freelancing? When you say "bills" you mean just that, or include expenses like food and the like?
BerislavLopac 16y ago
Seems to me like you should quit, and devote all of your time to growing your freelance business. It might be a bit tight financially for a while, but things should get better if you devote enough time.

RBerenguel 16y ago

Can't you witch to working full-time in your freelancing? I don't know if you can get more clients straight away, maybe (if your relation is good enough with them) you can ask your current clients for work recommendations, bootstrapping even more your full-time freelancing. I don't know the legalities and other related things aside, but I would make a rebellion, although you look in the worst position (you are being paid the same as a fresh recruit, come on!)... Walking straight to the boss and telling him either to raise pays or everybody leaves could be quite effective. And of course, 8 people talking shit about a startup can build quite a lot of momentum to keep him from getting any more job candidates/clients.

datawalke 16y ago
I do believe life is a good deal of weighing risks and taking them at a period of time. Jumping right off to freelancing would be too uncertain at the moment. Bills come to around $1,500/mo. Freelancing at the moment generates around $900-$1200/mo. But I currently only have the bandwidth to handle 1 or 2 projects per month. On the rebellion side I would not feel ethical doing so. I don't want this guy's business to crash and burn. It does honestly provide a solution to a need in the industry and the product is of high quality. As much as I sometimes wish I was, I'm not that much of a dick to cause trouble. (Plus there may be some movement there of a lawsuit or something that would make me overly nervous.) I do have a feeling however that me leaving this company will have a snowball effect on the others there.
- bensummers 16y ago
  If the product is as good as you say it is, there should be plenty of money to pay well. And paying people well should increase the quality further: if you don't have to worry about basic needs you've got more bandwidth for being technically excellent. Don't feel bad about 'rebellion', loyalty should be both ways and respect must be earned. Stand up for yourself!
  - jtheory 16y ago
    <i>If the product is as good as you say it is, there should be plenty of money to pay well.</i> It sounds to me like this business is currently failing, but your boss is "faking it" by exploiting you; he might just as well be paying you normally but keeping the doors open by draining his grandmother's bank account. It might not be a problem with the product -- after all, the client list is growing swiftly. Simply put, he needs to either find the money to pay for what he's demanding from you, or he needs to close up shop. He might need a loan or investment to cover the gap until you are cashflow positive, but in this case he is stealing from you instead. It's not even an "investment" on your part, because he seems to have utterly no intent to pay you back. That's just stealing. For comparison, in an honest situation, he would be either: * paying you a normal salary as an employee * paying you a higher rate as a 1099 contractor (to account for your reduced security and benefits) * or paying you less but accepting the difference as your personal investment in the company -- so like any investment, if the risk pays off, you would be paid back MORE than your investment in the future. This would be formalized by giving you shares, etc. (and you should be able to calculate how/when you would be repaid).
- RBerenguel 16y ago
  I agree with bensummers. It is not about being a dick, it is about being treated fairly. You have been severely underpaid for a long time, and he acts like you can't have a life of your own but just be a robot-like jack-of-all-trades. If my boss didn't pay for my health bill and asked me to work while at the hospital I would definitely not let it go like that, you are a human being, moreover, you are helping him to get money. And you are almost getting no money back. As about lawsuits, it greatly depends on how you focus it. You are being exploited, you know it (and he knows it). You could probably sue him right now. And telling your colleagues about how work was like there is not unethical, nor illegal, it is helpful for them. Couldn't you just balance on paying for more bandwidth (don't know the prices where you live) with just more freelancing? When you say "bills" you mean just that, or include expenses like food and the like?

BerislavLopac 16y ago

Seems to me like you should quit, and devote all of your time to growing your freelance business. It might be a bit tight financially for a while, but things should get better if you devote enough time.