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Python's growth in popularity is largely due to its superior data science libraries and the backing of Google. Without these it wouldn't be where it is today. P

by cutler 9y ago

Python's growth in popularity is largely due to its superior data science libraries and the backing of Google. Without these it wouldn't be where it is today. Perl's stewardship is largley responsible for its decline. If Perl6 hadn't taken 15 years to complete Perl's popularity might be different. Perl6 is far superior to Python and most popular languages. It's just not performant at string/regex handling which is ironic considering regex was Perl's forte.

oblio 9y ago
Perl is not more readable than Python. I know that "readable" is a subjective trait, but Python is 1 cm away from being pseudocode. And when a programming language is basically the thing we write when we don't have any tools to assist us, that says a lot about the language's syntactic quality, including its readability. Both the data science libraries and Google's backing come from this. And to be honest, I don't really see how Google's backing mattered that much... 99% of the popular Python libraries have nothing to do with Google, especially Django.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
dozzie 9y ago
> Python's growth in popularity is largely due to its superior data science libraries and the backing of Google. Both are false. Data science libraries are quite new development that happened because Python got popular, not the other way around. Backing by Google (whatever you mean) was irrelevant, as the main selling points for Python dozen years ago was simple and readable syntax and nice web toolkits (a movement that followed Ruby with its RoR). > If Perl6 hadn't taken 15 years to complete Perl's popularity might be different. Perl6 didn't compete for popularity with Perl, because it was essentially non-existent back then. Perl popularity decline cannot be attributed to Perl6. The thing is, Perl is a very complex language, but has competiton that is simpler grammar-wise and similarly powerful and expressive: Python and Ruby. It's easier for newcommers to learn Python or Ruby than Perl, so they rarely dig into Perl. This means that the number of people leaving the language (a normal thing for any language) is not matched by the number of young programmers, which leads straight to decline.
- cutler 9y ago
  Ruby 1.0 was released in 1996 and Python 1.0 in 1994. If Perl's demise was due to the simpler syntax of Python and Ruby why was Perl ever popular? Answer: Perl CGI at the dawn of the WWW. I'd date Perl's decline from around 2005 so Django and Rails might have more to do with it than languages and syntax.
  - pseudalopex 9y ago
    Perl was popular because it had a huge head start. Perl 5 was released the same year as Python 1.0. CPAN launched in 1995, PyPI in 2003. Python began to pick up momentum around 2000. It was able to break out of the "scripting" niche because it had good OO support and encouraged a consistent style that made it easy for several developers to work on a large project. Rails probably marked the tipping point, but it wasn't just the framework. A lot of Perl programmers found out they liked Ruby. You're right that Perl 6 was part of the problem; it might be where Ruby is today if it had come out in 2003. On the other hand, Ruby probably wouldn't exist if Perl 5 had a better object system.[1] It's "Ruby on Rails" because DHH fell in love with Ruby.[2] The creators of Django learned Perl before falling in love with Python.[3] So that has something to do with the languages too. [1] http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2001/11/29/ruby.html http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2001/11/29/ruby.ht... [2] https://www.quora.com/Why-did-David-Heinemeier-Hansson-choose-Ruby-over-Python-to-build-Rails/answer/David-Heinemeier-Hansson https://www.quora.com/Why-did-David-Heinemeier-Hansson-choos... [3] http://www.akitaonrails.com/2008/01/01/chatting-with-adrian-holovaty http://www.akitaonrails.com/2008/01/01/chatting-with-adrian-...
- petre 9y ago
  For me it's quite the opposite: knowing Perl I have little incentive to learn Python; the syntax is quite different, it uses significant whitespace that can easily change the logic. With Ruby it's different because Matz was inspired by Perl and the language is quite ellegant. Too bad it's equally slow. Maybe if mruby/crystal changes that it would be a nice language to learn.
  - cutler 9y ago

by cutler 9y ago

oblio 9y ago

Perl is not more readable than Python. I know that "readable" is a subjective trait, but Python is 1 cm away from being pseudocode. And when a programming language is basically the thing we write when we don't have any tools to assist us, that says a lot about the language's syntactic quality, including its readability. Both the data science libraries and Google's backing come from this. And to be honest, I don't really see how Google's backing mattered that much... 99% of the popular Python libraries have nothing to do with Google, especially Django.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

dozzie 9y ago

> Python's growth in popularity is largely due to its superior data science libraries and the backing of Google. Both are false. Data science libraries are quite new development that happened because Python got popular, not the other way around. Backing by Google (whatever you mean) was irrelevant, as the main selling points for Python dozen years ago was simple and readable syntax and nice web toolkits (a movement that followed Ruby with its RoR). > If Perl6 hadn't taken 15 years to complete Perl's popularity might be different. Perl6 didn't compete for popularity with Perl, because it was essentially non-existent back then. Perl popularity decline cannot be attributed to Perl6. The thing is, Perl is a very complex language, but has competiton that is simpler grammar-wise and similarly powerful and expressive: Python and Ruby. It's easier for newcommers to learn Python or Ruby than Perl, so they rarely dig into Perl. This means that the number of people leaving the language (a normal thing for any language) is not matched by the number of young programmers, which leads straight to decline.

cutler 9y ago
Ruby 1.0 was released in 1996 and Python 1.0 in 1994. If Perl's demise was due to the simpler syntax of Python and Ruby why was Perl ever popular? Answer: Perl CGI at the dawn of the WWW. I'd date Perl's decline from around 2005 so Django and Rails might have more to do with it than languages and syntax.
- pseudalopex 9y ago
  Perl was popular because it had a huge head start. Perl 5 was released the same year as Python 1.0. CPAN launched in 1995, PyPI in 2003. Python began to pick up momentum around 2000. It was able to break out of the "scripting" niche because it had good OO support and encouraged a consistent style that made it easy for several developers to work on a large project. Rails probably marked the tipping point, but it wasn't just the framework. A lot of Perl programmers found out they liked Ruby. You're right that Perl 6 was part of the problem; it might be where Ruby is today if it had come out in 2003. On the other hand, Ruby probably wouldn't exist if Perl 5 had a better object system.[1] It's "Ruby on Rails" because DHH fell in love with Ruby.[2] The creators of Django learned Perl before falling in love with Python.[3] So that has something to do with the languages too. [1] http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2001/11/29/ruby.html http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2001/11/29/ruby.ht... [2] https://www.quora.com/Why-did-David-Heinemeier-Hansson-choose-Ruby-over-Python-to-build-Rails/answer/David-Heinemeier-Hansson https://www.quora.com/Why-did-David-Heinemeier-Hansson-choos... [3] http://www.akitaonrails.com/2008/01/01/chatting-with-adrian-holovaty http://www.akitaonrails.com/2008/01/01/chatting-with-adrian-...
petre 9y ago
For me it's quite the opposite: knowing Perl I have little incentive to learn Python; the syntax is quite different, it uses significant whitespace that can easily change the logic. With Ruby it's different because Matz was inspired by Perl and the language is quite ellegant. Too bad it's equally slow. Maybe if mruby/crystal changes that it would be a nice language to learn.
- cutler 9y ago