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"Scientific innovation is pushing human longevity past the traditional limits. Yet despite this upward trend, we’re still not much smarter about what we put in

by Jun8 16y ago

"Scientific innovation is pushing human longevity past the traditional limits. Yet despite this upward trend, we’re still not much smarter about what we put in our bodies. " I expect medicine to solve problems caused by my bad habits rather than preach me about them! This is to say that sugar is my only vice (I don't drink, do drugs, gamble, drive dangerously, or eat too much meat) and I'm not quite ready to give it up. You may find that infantile but if the great things in life are taken away (or substituted with tofu), what remains?

dwwoelfel 16y ago
I disagree with this sentiment. Life isn't about chasing momentary pleasures at the expense of long-term values. What remains? A long healthy life free from obesity, lack of energy, gum disease, etc. Try giving up sweet things for a month or two, then drink a coke. If you're like me, you'll find that it's too sweet and you won't want another. But you can't cheat and use splenda or some other sugar substitute.
chipsy 16y ago
It's a change in material lifestyle. We know from studies, collective experience, and numerous spiritual teachings that happiness doesn't actually come from that form of pleasure, but it remains desirable and hard to change regardless. (For my part, I've got quite a thing for the noncaloric sweeteners and meat with the evil sodium nitrite. Neither of them have noticeable immediate effects on me, which is how I've changed my habits elsewhere, so I'm kind of stuck on how to progress with them.)
karzeem 16y ago
Your expectation is a worthwhile ideal, but it's very far out of the reach of modern medicine. Doctors are pretty good at treating symptoms, but when it comes to root causes of serious diseases, they're pretty bad at treating them without inflicting collateral damage on some other body system. Especially if the treatment involves disrupting a body process designed by evolution. The body owes as much of its function to the ways its systems interact as it does to the individual systems. And we're pretty much at a loss when it comes to tracing the mechanism of those interactions. In other words, I strongly suspect that until we're all flying around Mars in hover cars, any "don't worry about sugar anymore" treatment will end up being harmful in some insidious, not-discovered-until-years-later way.
- carbocation 16y ago
  > Doctors are pretty good at treating symptoms, but when it comes to root causes of serious diseases, they're pretty bad at treating them without inflicting collateral damage on some other body system. I'm sure this is true, but the examples that immediately come to mind don't fit. New tyrosine kinase inhibitors inhibit the fusion "always-on" tyrosine kinases that cause many cancers. Antibiotics kill bacteria. Statins stop the production of cholesterol. All of these get at the root cause of the problem and don't merely treat symptoms. When you say "good at treating symptoms," which things are you thinking about? I'm in medical school and always want to improve my understanding of what thoughtful people see as symptomatic treatments that don't get at the root cause of problems. (Like I said above, I know that there are tons of these, but would really like to know which ones come to mind for you; perhaps these are the places where we, as a profession, are failing.)
  - orangecat 16y ago
    I'm in medical school and always want to improve my understanding of what thoughtful people see as symptomatic treatments that don't get at the root cause of problems. A huge amount of medicine is essentially treating the symptoms of aging.
    - carbocation 16y ago
      What do you see as "aging," and do you see that as a disease process?
      - orangecat 16y ago
        Decreased physical and often mental capabilities, and increased susceptibility to other diseases and incidents like heart attacks and strokes. Whether aging itself is a disease is just a matter of definition, but preventing it or undoing its effects would substantially reduce the need for other medical treatments, as well as saving tons of money and greatly increasing quality of life. It may not be possible, or may require currently unavailable capabilities like advanced nanotechnology, but I believe it's worth seriously investigating.
richcollins 16y ago
Ive cut sugar and refined grains out of my diet. Now just a spoonful of ice cream is way more rewarding than any amount of sugar I would have eaten in the past.
radu_floricica 16y ago
I see your point, but still knowing more about what is good and what is bad for you can help a lot. You can still make changes which impact your satisfaction in small ways, but make a big difference. For example replacing sodas with fruit juice (without added sugar). It's still sweet and good, but much less harmful. Or eating your daily cake, but eating it between meals and/or cutting on some white bread instead.
donaldc 16y ago
You may find that infantile but if the great things in life are taken away (or substituted with tofu), what remains? I gave up refined sugar four months ago and have found that, after a couple months of adjustment, most fruit tastes much sweeter than before. I suspect the body adjusts over time to whatever level of sweetness it is tasting. Personally, I can't stand tofu, and don't eat it. But then, I find that it has many of the same issues as refined sugar -- it's a rather artificial, modern food that isn't deeply satisfying.

by Jun8 16y ago

dwwoelfel 16y ago

I disagree with this sentiment. Life isn't about chasing momentary pleasures at the expense of long-term values. What remains? A long healthy life free from obesity, lack of energy, gum disease, etc. Try giving up sweet things for a month or two, then drink a coke. If you're like me, you'll find that it's too sweet and you won't want another. But you can't cheat and use splenda or some other sugar substitute.

chipsy 16y ago

It's a change in material lifestyle. We know from studies, collective experience, and numerous spiritual teachings that happiness doesn't actually come from that form of pleasure, but it remains desirable and hard to change regardless. (For my part, I've got quite a thing for the noncaloric sweeteners and meat with the evil sodium nitrite. Neither of them have noticeable immediate effects on me, which is how I've changed my habits elsewhere, so I'm kind of stuck on how to progress with them.)

karzeem 16y ago

Your expectation is a worthwhile ideal, but it's very far out of the reach of modern medicine. Doctors are pretty good at treating symptoms, but when it comes to root causes of serious diseases, they're pretty bad at treating them without inflicting collateral damage on some other body system. Especially if the treatment involves disrupting a body process designed by evolution. The body owes as much of its function to the ways its systems interact as it does to the individual systems. And we're pretty much at a loss when it comes to tracing the mechanism of those interactions. In other words, I strongly suspect that until we're all flying around Mars in hover cars, any "don't worry about sugar anymore" treatment will end up being harmful in some insidious, not-discovered-until-years-later way.

carbocation 16y ago
> Doctors are pretty good at treating symptoms, but when it comes to root causes of serious diseases, they're pretty bad at treating them without inflicting collateral damage on some other body system. I'm sure this is true, but the examples that immediately come to mind don't fit. New tyrosine kinase inhibitors inhibit the fusion "always-on" tyrosine kinases that cause many cancers. Antibiotics kill bacteria. Statins stop the production of cholesterol. All of these get at the root cause of the problem and don't merely treat symptoms. When you say "good at treating symptoms," which things are you thinking about? I'm in medical school and always want to improve my understanding of what thoughtful people see as symptomatic treatments that don't get at the root cause of problems. (Like I said above, I know that there are tons of these, but would really like to know which ones come to mind for you; perhaps these are the places where we, as a profession, are failing.)
- orangecat 16y ago
  I'm in medical school and always want to improve my understanding of what thoughtful people see as symptomatic treatments that don't get at the root cause of problems. A huge amount of medicine is essentially treating the symptoms of aging.
  - carbocation 16y ago
    What do you see as "aging," and do you see that as a disease process?
    - orangecat 16y ago
      Decreased physical and often mental capabilities, and increased susceptibility to other diseases and incidents like heart attacks and strokes. Whether aging itself is a disease is just a matter of definition, but preventing it or undoing its effects would substantially reduce the need for other medical treatments, as well as saving tons of money and greatly increasing quality of life. It may not be possible, or may require currently unavailable capabilities like advanced nanotechnology, but I believe it's worth seriously investigating.

richcollins 16y ago

Ive cut sugar and refined grains out of my diet. Now just a spoonful of ice cream is way more rewarding than any amount of sugar I would have eaten in the past.

radu_floricica 16y ago

I see your point, but still knowing more about what is good and what is bad for you can help a lot. You can still make changes which impact your satisfaction in small ways, but make a big difference. For example replacing sodas with fruit juice (without added sugar). It's still sweet and good, but much less harmful. Or eating your daily cake, but eating it between meals and/or cutting on some white bread instead.

donaldc 16y ago

You may find that infantile but if the great things in life are taken away (or substituted with tofu), what remains? I gave up refined sugar four months ago and have found that, after a couple months of adjustment, most fruit tastes much sweeter than before. I suspect the body adjusts over time to whatever level of sweetness it is tasting. Personally, I can't stand tofu, and don't eat it. But then, I find that it has many of the same issues as refined sugar -- it's a rather artificial, modern food that isn't deeply satisfying.