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No, it's not. He ordered the hits. He, himself, did it.
by s73ver 9y ago
No, it's not. He ordered the hits. He, himself, did it.
- accountyaccount 9y agoyet to be proven
- s73ver 9y agoHis own chat logs show him ordering hits.
- accountyaccount 9y agoThe burden of proof is on the government to prove that those were his chat logs and they weren't altered. Until he's formally tried he's innocent of that accusation.
- mirimir 9y agoYes, he apparently did. But it's not clear where the idea came from. Some say that it was his mentor Roger Thomas Clark aka Variety Jones aka Cimon. Some say that it was DEA agent Carl Force aka Nob. In any case, it's clear that Ross was initially shocked by the idea.
- tptacek 9y agoNo, the opposite is true. As the appeals decision points out multiple times, Ulbricht was startlingly casual both about hte decision to order people killed and in his reaction to evidence that the killings had occurred. His ostensible hired assassin informed Ulbricht that he could have a target killed, but that he couldn't attmept to recover Ulbricht's funds unless he also paid for the assassination of several of the target's associates --- people Ulbricht had no ostensible connection to at all. Ulbricht essentially said "fuck it, whatever you think will help recover some of my funds" and paid for additional gratuitous killings. Importantly: this case had apparently nothing at all to do with Force, who was involved in a different murder-for-hire scheme, one for which Ulbricht could still stand trial (but probably won't, since his life sentence is now overwhelmingly likely to stand).
- mirimir 9y agoWeren't those other "murders" all cons by scammers? I'm arguing that he was initially shocked by the idea of killing people. But I don't disagree that he later became comfortable with the idea.
- tptacek 9y agoWe don't know. The prosecution's burden was to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, to a jury, that Ulbricht himself believed he was ordering people killed. They succeeded, and it's not hard to see why.
- mirimir 9y agoI don't disagree that he was ordering people killed. Even if it was all shadow play, driven by scammers and LEA entrapment, it was a moral failure. In hindsight, the better option would have been adequate security, to prevent interference by adversaries. Also, there should have been policy and mechanisms in place for dealing with adversaries. Silk Road clearly demonstrated a broad unmet demand for drugs from trusted sources. With trust based on user ratings. And by philosophy and necessity, it operated outside mundane society. If there were no laws against drug use, he could have just sued people or filed criminal charges. In future, the second realm will need its own enforcement services. And insurance.
- Zeppin 9y agoWas he? The chat logs of the first incident seem to suggest that he took some time to come around to it but he didn't seem to find it particularly horrifying or objectionable. https://www.wired.com/2015/04/silk-road-boss-first-murder-attempt-mentors-idea/ https://www.wired.com/2015/04/silk-road-boss-first-murder-at...
- s73ver 9y agoNo, it's pretty clear that Ross himself ordered the hits. He did it of his own volition, and he is the sole person responsible for doing so.