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I remember seeing an animated graphic of survey results over time (Past ~20 years) that showed the left has been getting lefter at ~5x the rate that the right i

I remember seeing an animated graphic of survey results over time (Past ~20 years) that showed the left has been getting lefter at ~5x the rate that the right is getting righter. I'm curious what would explain this.

WaxProlix 9y ago
Do you remember where this was? I'm interested because it feels like the exact opposite to me. We've got weakened labor unions and strengthened centralized control over resources, we've got stronger centralized government power over individuals (PATRIOT act et al), basically no world powers with an even nominally leftist government, yadda yadda. In the wake of the financial crisis, a lot of Golden Dawn-esque nationalist parties have crept up and are finding more success than I'd initially expected. It feels like we're moving more authoritarian right to me.
- voidz 9y ago
  I think this is actually totalitarian left - the right is more about personal liberties etc. Not trolling – I might be wrong –people more knowledgeable about the left/right dichotomy are welcome to shed some light onto this.
  - metaphorm 9y ago
    at the extremes, both left and right are totalitarian and are nightmarish w.r.t personal liberties. this is sometimes called the "horsheshoe political spectrum" [0] but personally I think that's a misunderstanding of political belief systems. left vs. right is meaningless. the real axis runs between liberation and domination. extreme domination parties (whether nominally capitalist, communist, fascist, or theocratic) are the scary ones that have that bloody track record of holocausts and genocides. 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
  - TheGirondin 9y ago
    >I think this is actually totalitarian left You're absolutely right. There is only one side organizing at grassroots level (indicating that these are not isolated occurrences, but rather are coming from the groups shared ideals) across the country to shut down the political speech of the other, violently in many cases, and that is the left.
    - WaxProlix 9y ago
      Sure thing buddy. http://atlantablackstar.com/2017/05/15/white-supremacist-richard-spencer-leads-march-charlottesville-va-reminiscent-kkk-gathering/ http://atlantablackstar.com/2017/05/15/white-supremacist-ric...
      - TheGirondin 9y ago
        Thanks for posting, as this one event by the far, far right with a couple dozen people stands in sharp contrast to dozens and dozens of examples involving as many as hundreds of people from the left, and really shows how unequatable they are.
        knowaveragejoe 9y ago
        This is just the most high profile example in recent memory.
        TheGirondin 9y ago
        Which doesn't change the reality of what I've said. I even linked to an left-wing incident that happened over the weekend, with an order of magnitude more people. http://college.usatoday.com/2017/05/30/protests-erupt-over-racism-at-evergreen-state-college/ http://college.usatoday.com/2017/05/30/protests-erupt-over-r...
        knowaveragejoe 9y ago
        Sorry, I was wrong. The stabbing on the bus in Oregon is probably the most high profile example of a xenophobia-motivated killing: http://ktla.com/2017/05/30/portland-man-accused-of-stabbing-killing-2-men-yells-in-court-you-call-it-terrorism-i-call-it-patriotism/ http://ktla.com/2017/05/30/portland-man-accused-of-stabbing-...
  - sharemywin 9y ago
    It's economic versus social issues. The "left" is more authoritarian on economic issues. The "right" is more authoritarian on social issues.
    - TheGirondin 9y ago
      Maybe in the past, the left has grown increasingly authoritarian on social issues over the last few years. Just yesterday a mob of left-wing students tried to assault a professor over a social issue. http://college.usatoday.com/2017/05/30/protests-erupt-over-racism-at-evergreen-state-college/ http://college.usatoday.com/2017/05/30/protests-erupt-over-r...
      - sharemywin 9y ago
        The alt-left I guess.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > I think this is actually totalitarian left - the right is more about personal liberties etc. Both the left anf the right talk a lot about personal liberties (though they focus on different specific liberties). Both the left and the right have domains where they generally favor government control. And both the left and the right have factions which are more libertarian (focussing more on the areas of personal liberty favored by their respective side) and factions that are more authoritarian (focussing more on the areas of central control favored by their respective side.) Historically, the left is generally the side favoring, on balance, democratization of power and greater liberty, but that's focussed on breaking power down from wherever it is centralized which isn't always formal government.
voidz 9y ago
Media bias, perhaps?
bryanlarsen 9y ago
It's more obvious if you use the alternate names "progressive" and "conservative" to describe the left and right. The left is in favour of change, the right is anti-change. So as things change, what the left wants changes, but the right doesn't.
- narrowrail 9y ago
  >It's more obvious And then you factor in the the original Progressive Party came out of the Republicans (i.e. Roosevelt).

WaxProlix 9y ago

Do you remember where this was? I'm interested because it feels like the exact opposite to me. We've got weakened labor unions and strengthened centralized control over resources, we've got stronger centralized government power over individuals (PATRIOT act et al), basically no world powers with an even nominally leftist government, yadda yadda. In the wake of the financial crisis, a lot of Golden Dawn-esque nationalist parties have crept up and are finding more success than I'd initially expected. It feels like we're moving more authoritarian right to me.

voidz 9y ago
I think this is actually totalitarian left - the right is more about personal liberties etc. Not trolling – I might be wrong –people more knowledgeable about the left/right dichotomy are welcome to shed some light onto this.
- metaphorm 9y ago
  at the extremes, both left and right are totalitarian and are nightmarish w.r.t personal liberties. this is sometimes called the "horsheshoe political spectrum" [0] but personally I think that's a misunderstanding of political belief systems. left vs. right is meaningless. the real axis runs between liberation and domination. extreme domination parties (whether nominally capitalist, communist, fascist, or theocratic) are the scary ones that have that bloody track record of holocausts and genocides. 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
- TheGirondin 9y ago
  >I think this is actually totalitarian left You're absolutely right. There is only one side organizing at grassroots level (indicating that these are not isolated occurrences, but rather are coming from the groups shared ideals) across the country to shut down the political speech of the other, violently in many cases, and that is the left.
  - WaxProlix 9y ago
    Sure thing buddy. http://atlantablackstar.com/2017/05/15/white-supremacist-richard-spencer-leads-march-charlottesville-va-reminiscent-kkk-gathering/ http://atlantablackstar.com/2017/05/15/white-supremacist-ric...
    - TheGirondin 9y ago
      Thanks for posting, as this one event by the far, far right with a couple dozen people stands in sharp contrast to dozens and dozens of examples involving as many as hundreds of people from the left, and really shows how unequatable they are.
      - knowaveragejoe 9y ago
        This is just the most high profile example in recent memory.
        TheGirondin 9y ago
        Which doesn't change the reality of what I've said. I even linked to an left-wing incident that happened over the weekend, with an order of magnitude more people. http://college.usatoday.com/2017/05/30/protests-erupt-over-racism-at-evergreen-state-college/ http://college.usatoday.com/2017/05/30/protests-erupt-over-r...
        knowaveragejoe 9y ago
        Sorry, I was wrong. The stabbing on the bus in Oregon is probably the most high profile example of a xenophobia-motivated killing: http://ktla.com/2017/05/30/portland-man-accused-of-stabbing-killing-2-men-yells-in-court-you-call-it-terrorism-i-call-it-patriotism/ http://ktla.com/2017/05/30/portland-man-accused-of-stabbing-...
- sharemywin 9y ago
  It's economic versus social issues. The "left" is more authoritarian on economic issues. The "right" is more authoritarian on social issues.
  - TheGirondin 9y ago
    Maybe in the past, the left has grown increasingly authoritarian on social issues over the last few years. Just yesterday a mob of left-wing students tried to assault a professor over a social issue. http://college.usatoday.com/2017/05/30/protests-erupt-over-racism-at-evergreen-state-college/ http://college.usatoday.com/2017/05/30/protests-erupt-over-r...
    - sharemywin 9y ago
      The alt-left I guess.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > I think this is actually totalitarian left - the right is more about personal liberties etc. Both the left anf the right talk a lot about personal liberties (though they focus on different specific liberties). Both the left and the right have domains where they generally favor government control. And both the left and the right have factions which are more libertarian (focussing more on the areas of personal liberty favored by their respective side) and factions that are more authoritarian (focussing more on the areas of central control favored by their respective side.) Historically, the left is generally the side favoring, on balance, democratization of power and greater liberty, but that's focussed on breaking power down from wherever it is centralized which isn't always formal government.

voidz 9y ago

Media bias, perhaps?

bryanlarsen 9y ago

It's more obvious if you use the alternate names "progressive" and "conservative" to describe the left and right. The left is in favour of change, the right is anti-change. So as things change, what the left wants changes, but the right doesn't.

narrowrail 9y ago
>It's more obvious And then you factor in the the original Progressive Party came out of the Republicans (i.e. Roosevelt).