4 ms·

As a non-american that was my main worry about the Trump presidency. Well here we are. I wonder how much more time well waste not actively fighting climate chan

by simias 9y ago

As a non-american that was my main worry about the Trump presidency. Well here we are. I wonder how much more time well waste not actively fighting climate change because of this. At least I hope that the rest of the world will stay true to its word, but if america gains an unfair economical advantage by not following the rules I can't really imagine how it could work out. Could Europe and China impose sanctions on the USA for pulling out of the deal? Seems very doubtful.

smt88 9y ago
China has limited power over the US because it relies so heavily on US consumption and because the US owes Chins a staggering amount of money.
problems 9y ago
The craziest part to me is that they've got some of the fastest developing countries on the planet, the ones bringing millions of people out of rural poverty every year committed to this - but a country that's so much further along than that is bailing out of it. It just doesn't add up. If India and China can do it, the USA has no excuses.
- panzagl 9y ago
  Aren't developing countries the ones benefiting directly from the treaty?
  - inetknght 9y ago
    ...and the USA wouldn't?
    - panzagl 9y ago
      The treaty provides a mechanism for taking money from the developed world and giving it to the undeveloped world, in exchange for basically not developing. So it is a direct monetary benefit vs a nebulously defined future one.
  - celticninja 9y ago
    to be fair the idea is that everyone benefits when we don't make large parts of the earth uninhabitable for people. In fact developed nations would probably see a better return, if the climate issues get worse they will be felt more in 1st world countries than they will in developing countries because it is the luxuries we have in the developed world that will be lost first (or at least more noticeably).
panzagl 9y ago
Is China following the rules? Eastern Europe? Genuinely curious- here's your chance to convince a USian that this is more than trying to drag the US down to everyone else's level.
- simias 9y ago
  I genuinely don't know but at least they haven't pulled out of it and I haven't read any news article saying that they're missing their targets so far. I guess it's probably too early to judge at any rate.
- k-mcgrady 9y ago
  1. I don't believe there is a monitoring system. If you sign up you agree to certain things and everybody hopes you stick to your word essentially. 2. Why does it matter what China or 'Eastern Europe' (which specific states are you referring to?) do? Adults shouldn't need to have it explained to them that just because somebody else does something, doesn't mean they should also do that. Finally regarding "dragging the US down to everyone else's level" - what level is this? I'm not sure the best way to look at the figures but, per capita at least, the US is one of the worst C02 polluters coming in at 8th whereas China is down at 55th.
  - panzagl 9y ago
    So China emits twice as much CO2 as the US, but because they have a bunch of subsistence farmers it's ok? Sounds like the US is on the right track by increasing income inequality...
    - maxerickson 9y ago
      What measure are you suggesting is a fair one that we could get other parties to agree to? You seem to be arguing that per capita isn't a fair assessment, but it is sort of the reasonable one. (it also isn't the case that reducing emissions must have negative consequences, which you imply with "drag the US down")
    - k-mcgrady 9y ago

by simias 9y ago

smt88 9y ago

China has limited power over the US because it relies so heavily on US consumption and because the US owes Chins a staggering amount of money.

problems 9y ago

The craziest part to me is that they've got some of the fastest developing countries on the planet, the ones bringing millions of people out of rural poverty every year committed to this - but a country that's so much further along than that is bailing out of it. It just doesn't add up. If India and China can do it, the USA has no excuses.

panzagl 9y ago
Aren't developing countries the ones benefiting directly from the treaty?
- inetknght 9y ago
  ...and the USA wouldn't?
  - panzagl 9y ago
    The treaty provides a mechanism for taking money from the developed world and giving it to the undeveloped world, in exchange for basically not developing. So it is a direct monetary benefit vs a nebulously defined future one.
- celticninja 9y ago
  to be fair the idea is that everyone benefits when we don't make large parts of the earth uninhabitable for people. In fact developed nations would probably see a better return, if the climate issues get worse they will be felt more in 1st world countries than they will in developing countries because it is the luxuries we have in the developed world that will be lost first (or at least more noticeably).

panzagl 9y ago

Is China following the rules? Eastern Europe? Genuinely curious- here's your chance to convince a USian that this is more than trying to drag the US down to everyone else's level.

simias 9y ago
I genuinely don't know but at least they haven't pulled out of it and I haven't read any news article saying that they're missing their targets so far. I guess it's probably too early to judge at any rate.
k-mcgrady 9y ago
1. I don't believe there is a monitoring system. If you sign up you agree to certain things and everybody hopes you stick to your word essentially. 2. Why does it matter what China or 'Eastern Europe' (which specific states are you referring to?) do? Adults shouldn't need to have it explained to them that just because somebody else does something, doesn't mean they should also do that. Finally regarding "dragging the US down to everyone else's level" - what level is this? I'm not sure the best way to look at the figures but, per capita at least, the US is one of the worst C02 polluters coming in at 8th whereas China is down at 55th.
- panzagl 9y ago
  So China emits twice as much CO2 as the US, but because they have a bunch of subsistence farmers it's ok? Sounds like the US is on the right track by increasing income inequality...
  - maxerickson 9y ago
    What measure are you suggesting is a fair one that we could get other parties to agree to? You seem to be arguing that per capita isn't a fair assessment, but it is sort of the reasonable one. (it also isn't the case that reducing emissions must have negative consequences, which you imply with "drag the US down")
  - k-mcgrady 9y ago