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In my personal experience, the codebase is not the problem, but the people and the culture who made the codebase. We sent people to the moon with the computing

In my personal experience, the codebase is not the problem, but the people and the culture who made the codebase. We sent people to the moon with the computing power of a calculator, and with enough good people and effort, and version control, you can rewrite any legacy codebase to meet rigorous standards and meet the performance needs of the users. Out of all the things humanity is trying and has accomplished, this is not unacheivable. If the people don't want it, and the culture does not lend itself to high standards, often people will not see the same pain a developer will experience when they see poor code performing poorly. They may complain about the output and all the other things wrong about the platform, but that doesn't mean the company is going to support a legacy reboot, that just means the company has an accepted culture of low performance and complaining. I say this in the context of a non software development company relying on alot of software. my most recent form of personal torture I have endured is watching my IT department take a 45 yr old blackbox piece of software from a very old outdated engineering firm who never specialized in software, and actually trying to port it to AWS, thinking it will speed up performance AND save costs. They have no idea if there is capability for the kernel to exploit concurrency of the algorithms on the inside. What they do know is there was a bug in the code, and it took 8 months to fix embedded in 1500 lines of code, it had no API and all the developers were dead or unemployed by the original company. They pay millions of dollars annually for this liscense and additionally millions more for an "HPC" to run it on. They would never consider rewriting it, or contracting a new firm with a timeline, performance standards, needs and competitive cost recruiting. They don't know how. They don't understand how. This is the way of the world outside of software development companies. It's....painful... If youre wondering how I exist in such a painful environment, I'm an Electrical Engineer, and I do not work for a software company. I get to mentor under some of the most brilliant and game changing Engineers in my industry, but it has very little to do with software development. It could have alot to do with it, but the engineers have no interest in taking advantage of software. They have to be able to first understand the advantages software can provide but..I mean, some of the engineers I work with don't know what a GPU is. Never heard of it. I write all my own code for my own work from scratch.

randomf1fan 9y ago
Your comment reflects what I heard last week from a friend. He's a PE (Professional Engineer) working with a large power utility company, and his company uses software that, in his words, "really sucks". He was telling me this because he got a job offer from a startup, where they wanted him to be the subject matter expert for an application they were developing for power utilities. It's a good offer, and he's tempted, but he's not sure if he can fit into the software/startup culture. In addition, he felt that the developers were looking to use him like a reference book - he got the impression that the founders saw software as the answer to everything, and that they didn't see power engineering as a particularly hard domain. There was (in his words) a distinct whiff of "developers are the cool guys". This turned him off somewhat. So he's not sure if he'll take the offer, and I'd say he's leaning no. Just an anecdote to illustrate the clash of cultures.
- usmeteora 9y ago
  Interesting. I am getting the same kind of offers. Theres alot of subsidies and VC investment in "clean" energy and "smart grid" so developers left and right have a new market to apply their software development skills to. In my experience, I am not being used as a reference book, and my long term investment in coding/Minor in Compsci and personal projects make me able to translate enegineering speak to software speak. I have not had the experience that the developers think software is the answer and that power is trivial. I think the real clash of cultures is the culture of software development realizing how much beuracracy surrounds the power grid, and how much resistance there is to change within the industry, because the industry really does not understand how 95% of their day manually editing excel workbooks that output fortran run files from the 80s could be deleted and improved, and of course, most of them don't want to improve since there is a 30yr generational gap in the power industry. Half of the people I work with don't believe in climate change and think Elon Musk is taking their jobs. This industry is ripe for disruption and I don't think the mentality that software/smart grid stuff can improve it is incorrect, but I do think the naivete that everyone in every industry is as openminded and continually putting in effort to learn and produce working products, which is a mindset required by successful growing software firms, is proving to be a big barrier and wake up call to software companies trying to come in an help. I honestly blame our industry over software developers, but yeh, theres also a goldrush in "smartgrid" "clean energy" stuff and everyone want's to be apart of it. Definitely as a Power Engineer it leaves you getting lots of opportunities and having to sort through who is willing to invest in understanding the complexities of innovating on the power grid, and who is going to cop out once they realize you can't whip up an app and make money off users the way snapchat will. Theres also, and for good reason, lots of cybersecurity policies surrounding software running on the power grid, because hacking the grid has detrimental effects that can quickly translate to coast wide blackouts etc. That also means the newest github release of that multiplatform coffeescript spinoff is not going to be allowed to be used in alot of the grid side applications, and there is more work involveded with vetting development. All of these things really quickly weed out the devs who are looking for quick stardom and the next easiest cashcow, and landing on the latest buzzwords related to clean energy. It can be frustrating weeding out the companies who try to hire you from that perspective. It doesn't mean the grid doesnt need better software, it just means people, even developers who want to cash in on hot finance markets are going to take the path of least resistance, and the powergrid is not the path of least resistance (no pun intended) when it comes to quick cash and unicorn apps. You have to actually CARE about innovating on the grid, and not just to pretend to care because theres billions sitting around in funding waiting to fund good smart energy innovation. Regardless, because this money is there now, and there's the backing of social reinforcement of being able to herald your startup as bleeding edge world saving technology thats going to stop societies impending doom from global warming, is a very compelling emotional appeal that makes marketing and justifying your product easy. It's hot right now and in then ext ten years we will see who is around to grab quick cash and feel good about being the poster child for saving the climate and who is willing to invest in truly renovating the powergrid and enabling clean energy as a sutainable long term solution that is eocnomically viable without startup subsidies to cover the cost of initial investments. Eventually these companies have to show a profit... It is frustrating to be in the industry as an Engineer under the age of 35, and also have exposure to Compsci and friends working at Amazon and Google, and having to explain a hyperlink to a coworker 3 levels above you. It's also frustrating to take graduate level classes and do research and R&D and have spent years designing power grid and actually being on the power grid and seeing construction and putting in hard work to learn Electrical Power before it was "cool" and then have an insurmountable rush of developers who want you to help them change the world. They are the CEO, you are the reference book engineer. I get that, but its important to look past that and see there is true benefit to the innovation. And for the most part they are right, this industry has been sitting in static mode riding comfortably for a long time in many ways when it comes to trying to stay technologicially relevant, and maintain sustainable infrastructure that allows for growth. So it is frustrating, but ultimately the software/tech community is in the right. It's time for a change and this industry needs to admit it kind of sucked at changing itself for decades. It also helps that I have 8 years of coding experience I put in on my own time to help ease this barrier but I am an exception to the rule as I have been told by recruiters doing smart grid dev.

randomf1fan 9y ago

Your comment reflects what I heard last week from a friend. He's a PE (Professional Engineer) working with a large power utility company, and his company uses software that, in his words, "really sucks". He was telling me this because he got a job offer from a startup, where they wanted him to be the subject matter expert for an application they were developing for power utilities. It's a good offer, and he's tempted, but he's not sure if he can fit into the software/startup culture. In addition, he felt that the developers were looking to use him like a reference book - he got the impression that the founders saw software as the answer to everything, and that they didn't see power engineering as a particularly hard domain. There was (in his words) a distinct whiff of "developers are the cool guys". This turned him off somewhat. So he's not sure if he'll take the offer, and I'd say he's leaning no. Just an anecdote to illustrate the clash of cultures.

usmeteora 9y ago
Interesting. I am getting the same kind of offers. Theres alot of subsidies and VC investment in "clean" energy and "smart grid" so developers left and right have a new market to apply their software development skills to. In my experience, I am not being used as a reference book, and my long term investment in coding/Minor in Compsci and personal projects make me able to translate enegineering speak to software speak. I have not had the experience that the developers think software is the answer and that power is trivial. I think the real clash of cultures is the culture of software development realizing how much beuracracy surrounds the power grid, and how much resistance there is to change within the industry, because the industry really does not understand how 95% of their day manually editing excel workbooks that output fortran run files from the 80s could be deleted and improved, and of course, most of them don't want to improve since there is a 30yr generational gap in the power industry. Half of the people I work with don't believe in climate change and think Elon Musk is taking their jobs. This industry is ripe for disruption and I don't think the mentality that software/smart grid stuff can improve it is incorrect, but I do think the naivete that everyone in every industry is as openminded and continually putting in effort to learn and produce working products, which is a mindset required by successful growing software firms, is proving to be a big barrier and wake up call to software companies trying to come in an help. I honestly blame our industry over software developers, but yeh, theres also a goldrush in "smartgrid" "clean energy" stuff and everyone want's to be apart of it. Definitely as a Power Engineer it leaves you getting lots of opportunities and having to sort through who is willing to invest in understanding the complexities of innovating on the power grid, and who is going to cop out once they realize you can't whip up an app and make money off users the way snapchat will. Theres also, and for good reason, lots of cybersecurity policies surrounding software running on the power grid, because hacking the grid has detrimental effects that can quickly translate to coast wide blackouts etc. That also means the newest github release of that multiplatform coffeescript spinoff is not going to be allowed to be used in alot of the grid side applications, and there is more work involveded with vetting development. All of these things really quickly weed out the devs who are looking for quick stardom and the next easiest cashcow, and landing on the latest buzzwords related to clean energy. It can be frustrating weeding out the companies who try to hire you from that perspective. It doesn't mean the grid doesnt need better software, it just means people, even developers who want to cash in on hot finance markets are going to take the path of least resistance, and the powergrid is not the path of least resistance (no pun intended) when it comes to quick cash and unicorn apps. You have to actually CARE about innovating on the grid, and not just to pretend to care because theres billions sitting around in funding waiting to fund good smart energy innovation. Regardless, because this money is there now, and there's the backing of social reinforcement of being able to herald your startup as bleeding edge world saving technology thats going to stop societies impending doom from global warming, is a very compelling emotional appeal that makes marketing and justifying your product easy. It's hot right now and in then ext ten years we will see who is around to grab quick cash and feel good about being the poster child for saving the climate and who is willing to invest in truly renovating the powergrid and enabling clean energy as a sutainable long term solution that is eocnomically viable without startup subsidies to cover the cost of initial investments. Eventually these companies have to show a profit... It is frustrating to be in the industry as an Engineer under the age of 35, and also have exposure to Compsci and friends working at Amazon and Google, and having to explain a hyperlink to a coworker 3 levels above you. It's also frustrating to take graduate level classes and do research and R&D and have spent years designing power grid and actually being on the power grid and seeing construction and putting in hard work to learn Electrical Power before it was "cool" and then have an insurmountable rush of developers who want you to help them change the world. They are the CEO, you are the reference book engineer. I get that, but its important to look past that and see there is true benefit to the innovation. And for the most part they are right, this industry has been sitting in static mode riding comfortably for a long time in many ways when it comes to trying to stay technologicially relevant, and maintain sustainable infrastructure that allows for growth. So it is frustrating, but ultimately the software/tech community is in the right. It's time for a change and this industry needs to admit it kind of sucked at changing itself for decades. It also helps that I have 8 years of coding experience I put in on my own time to help ease this barrier but I am an exception to the rule as I have been told by recruiters doing smart grid dev.