4 ms·

Sure. And my dry cleaning, and my weekly shopping all just fit on my bike and.. Oh. Wait. And my friends who live 20+ miles away will be delighted to have me o

Sure. And my dry cleaning, and my weekly shopping all just fit on my bike and.. Oh. Wait. And my friends who live 20+ miles away will be delighted to have me over for dinner after having worked up a sweat. Not to mention being lucky enough to then pedal 2+ hours after that dinner. My partner who's got a back injury? Well, tough for them, they should just stay home. Bikes are a great thing. I have one, and I use it regularly - but they're not an either-or proposition in many environments. The way our cities are structured, we need cars. (On the West Coast. The East Coast has the benefit of a more traditional layout, often making them more walkable)

Theodores 9y ago
Sure... I forget HN is USA car culture with no public transit until hyperloops magically happen! This is a cultural difference, you Americans can't even walk unless it is a hike up Half Dome or something, walking to the shops is just not allowed - jaywalking they call it?!? In Europe we have trains for going direct to city or town centre, with plenty of stops in between. I spend quality time with my phone on the train journey there, I arrive alive rather than tired out by breathing the exhaust from the car in front, as happens if you 'sit in traffic' warming the planet. Furthermore, I can drink sociably when out on bike/train - I don't have to ride the road to the station on the way back and I don't have to be the boring driver who cannot go with the party. I also don't disturb people revving an engine late at night or risk the lives of others at the wheel of a two tonne machine. I don't take up parking space or impose on my hosts that they provision parking arrangements for me. As for the sweat thing, that is not a problem on a bike, however, trapped in a tin box, sat on a seat that never gets washed, with 360 degree greenhouse, that can be bad for the sweat thing, even with air-con. I am also not tied to an invisible cord to the car, only able to make a certain amount of paces from it, free rather than chained to all this moral baggage. Dry cleaning? Basic 30 wash for me. Drip dry. I go to weddings, interviews and posh business things, I am even on first name terms with the guy in the dry cleaners, but my needs for dry cleaning are not in your American league of consumerist normality. The idea that I could not do my dry cleaning because I didn't have a car - I so would love to have that problem rather than laugh at those that do. Shopping. Do you Americans eat your own weight in food every 168 hours? Yes growing children do need mountains of food but you can get all that stuff delivered these days and you can pick up really fresh nice food on a daily basis from better shops than that big box store you Americans have to drive to. ...ah backs. Back injuries happen in many ways, IMHO those that don't cycle are headed for back injury from spending too long sitting down, sitting in cars and putting on the pounds. I know you propose 'cars for all' as the only real world way, but what about blind people? Tough for them. Or people with no arms maybe they should just stay at home. That excuse for 'must have cars' is sub-par for HN logical reasoning.
- grzm 9y ago
  > I forget HN is USA car culture with no public transit until hyperloops magically happen! > Do you Americans eat your own weight in food every 168 hours? Please just don't. Building upon and reinforcing stereotypes doesn't add to the discussion. Regardless of what you're responding to, do better than this. Some people don't have access to good public transportation: that's just a fact. Sharing how you approach life is great. Doing so in a way that bashes a group of people—regardless of what group it is—isn't helpful or make your statements amenable to reasoned consideration. HN is a community you choose to participate in. Are you accurately described by the statements you attribute to the HN community?
- groby_b 9y ago
  Once you're done with your tirade, let me gently direct you back to what I actually said: "Bikes are a great thing[...] but they're not an either-or proposition in many environments." While you could maybe be a bit less polemic about it if you'd actually like to engage in a debate instead of yet another Internet flamewar, you've understood the core of the problem: Introducing bikes in the US is a cultural issue. It's a long slog. Dropping a subsidy for e-cars (which is crucial to drop pollution levels and break petroleum dependency) for bikes nobody will use right now is... not helping anybody. You might also want to improve your understanding of another culture before you insult them wholesale. So, a few things: * "jaywalking" means illegally crossing the street. Which exists in Europe as well as the US. * "As for the sweat thing, that is not a problem on a bike". You really might want to learn about humidity. * "you can pick up really fresh nice food on a daily basis from better shops". No, no you really can't. The shopping situation here is dismal.
jdietrich 9y ago
American attitudes to cycling are about 20 years behind the times. Cycling is a completely practical mode of transport for everyday journeys, even in low-density suburbs and moderately rural areas. Yes, you can fit all your shopping on a bicycle. You can even take your kids to school on one. https://www.bakfiets.nl/ https://www.bakfiets.nl/ https://yubabikes.com/ https://yubabikes.com/ Yes, your partner with a back injury can ride a bicycle. So can someone with coordination or balance problems, missing limbs or any number of other impairments. http://hasebikes.com/91-1-Recumbent-Bike-KETTWIESEL-ALLROUND.html http://hasebikes.com/91-1-Recumbent-Bike-KETTWIESEL-ALLROUND... http://hasebikes.com/104-1-Special-Needs-Trike-Handbike.html http://hasebikes.com/104-1-Special-Needs-Trike-Handbike.html Yes, you can ride 20 miles to dinner without working up a sweat and you can do it in much less than 2 hours. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBjMEuViuPU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBjMEuViuPU If there were the political will to make it happen, American cities could look like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-AbPav5E5M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-AbPav5E5M
- groby_b 9y ago
  1) These are all specialty bikes, and well outside the price range suggested in the GP ($250-$500) 2) No, my partner can't ride a bicycle. As advanced as your powers of remote diagnosing may be, they're wrong. It's not an option. We tried. (I'm from Germany. I'm somewhat acquainted w/ the idea of specialty bikes, and trust me, I looked at them) 3) Theoretically, I might fit my shopping needs on a bicycle. Alas, transportation here is so completely shot that taking that bike onto the road (what bikelanes?!?) is essentially a suicide attempt. Colleagues who have the ability to bike to work usually end up with about 1-2 severe accidents (broken bones) per year. And yes, e-bikes might address the distance problem. I still can't do it in much less than 2 hours because... I live in LA. Nobody goes 20 miles in less than two hours ;) 4) Even if there was the political will to make it happen, no, not all American cities could look like this without ~20-30 years of rezoning and construction. US city planning is... special. European solutions cannot simply be transferred to the US, as much as I'd wish for that. (Remember, I'm German - I've lived in cities friendly to people, instead of cars. I miss it). And that's why the suggestion of getting rid of the e-car subsidy in favor of bikes won't work in the US. Nobody will use the bikes because the infrastructure doesn't exist. That doesn't mean we shouldn't also work on improving the infrastructure, and on changing city planning, and creating workable public transit, and all those things - but they're long-term projects.

Theodores 9y ago

Sure... I forget HN is USA car culture with no public transit until hyperloops magically happen! This is a cultural difference, you Americans can't even walk unless it is a hike up Half Dome or something, walking to the shops is just not allowed - jaywalking they call it?!? In Europe we have trains for going direct to city or town centre, with plenty of stops in between. I spend quality time with my phone on the train journey there, I arrive alive rather than tired out by breathing the exhaust from the car in front, as happens if you 'sit in traffic' warming the planet. Furthermore, I can drink sociably when out on bike/train - I don't have to ride the road to the station on the way back and I don't have to be the boring driver who cannot go with the party. I also don't disturb people revving an engine late at night or risk the lives of others at the wheel of a two tonne machine. I don't take up parking space or impose on my hosts that they provision parking arrangements for me. As for the sweat thing, that is not a problem on a bike, however, trapped in a tin box, sat on a seat that never gets washed, with 360 degree greenhouse, that can be bad for the sweat thing, even with air-con. I am also not tied to an invisible cord to the car, only able to make a certain amount of paces from it, free rather than chained to all this moral baggage. Dry cleaning? Basic 30 wash for me. Drip dry. I go to weddings, interviews and posh business things, I am even on first name terms with the guy in the dry cleaners, but my needs for dry cleaning are not in your American league of consumerist normality. The idea that I could not do my dry cleaning because I didn't have a car - I so would love to have that problem rather than laugh at those that do. Shopping. Do you Americans eat your own weight in food every 168 hours? Yes growing children do need mountains of food but you can get all that stuff delivered these days and you can pick up really fresh nice food on a daily basis from better shops than that big box store you Americans have to drive to. ...ah backs. Back injuries happen in many ways, IMHO those that don't cycle are headed for back injury from spending too long sitting down, sitting in cars and putting on the pounds. I know you propose 'cars for all' as the only real world way, but what about blind people? Tough for them. Or people with no arms maybe they should just stay at home. That excuse for 'must have cars' is sub-par for HN logical reasoning.

grzm 9y ago
> I forget HN is USA car culture with no public transit until hyperloops magically happen! > Do you Americans eat your own weight in food every 168 hours? Please just don't. Building upon and reinforcing stereotypes doesn't add to the discussion. Regardless of what you're responding to, do better than this. Some people don't have access to good public transportation: that's just a fact. Sharing how you approach life is great. Doing so in a way that bashes a group of people—regardless of what group it is—isn't helpful or make your statements amenable to reasoned consideration. HN is a community you choose to participate in. Are you accurately described by the statements you attribute to the HN community?
groby_b 9y ago
Once you're done with your tirade, let me gently direct you back to what I actually said: "Bikes are a great thing[...] but they're not an either-or proposition in many environments." While you could maybe be a bit less polemic about it if you'd actually like to engage in a debate instead of yet another Internet flamewar, you've understood the core of the problem: Introducing bikes in the US is a cultural issue. It's a long slog. Dropping a subsidy for e-cars (which is crucial to drop pollution levels and break petroleum dependency) for bikes nobody will use right now is... not helping anybody. You might also want to improve your understanding of another culture before you insult them wholesale. So, a few things: * "jaywalking" means illegally crossing the street. Which exists in Europe as well as the US. * "As for the sweat thing, that is not a problem on a bike". You really might want to learn about humidity. * "you can pick up really fresh nice food on a daily basis from better shops". No, no you really can't. The shopping situation here is dismal.

jdietrich 9y ago

American attitudes to cycling are about 20 years behind the times. Cycling is a completely practical mode of transport for everyday journeys, even in low-density suburbs and moderately rural areas. Yes, you can fit all your shopping on a bicycle. You can even take your kids to school on one. https://www.bakfiets.nl/ https://www.bakfiets.nl/ https://yubabikes.com/ https://yubabikes.com/ Yes, your partner with a back injury can ride a bicycle. So can someone with coordination or balance problems, missing limbs or any number of other impairments. http://hasebikes.com/91-1-Recumbent-Bike-KETTWIESEL-ALLROUND.html http://hasebikes.com/91-1-Recumbent-Bike-KETTWIESEL-ALLROUND... http://hasebikes.com/104-1-Special-Needs-Trike-Handbike.html http://hasebikes.com/104-1-Special-Needs-Trike-Handbike.html Yes, you can ride 20 miles to dinner without working up a sweat and you can do it in much less than 2 hours. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBjMEuViuPU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBjMEuViuPU If there were the political will to make it happen, American cities could look like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-AbPav5E5M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-AbPav5E5M

groby_b 9y ago
1) These are all specialty bikes, and well outside the price range suggested in the GP ($250-$500) 2) No, my partner can't ride a bicycle. As advanced as your powers of remote diagnosing may be, they're wrong. It's not an option. We tried. (I'm from Germany. I'm somewhat acquainted w/ the idea of specialty bikes, and trust me, I looked at them) 3) Theoretically, I might fit my shopping needs on a bicycle. Alas, transportation here is so completely shot that taking that bike onto the road (what bikelanes?!?) is essentially a suicide attempt. Colleagues who have the ability to bike to work usually end up with about 1-2 severe accidents (broken bones) per year. And yes, e-bikes might address the distance problem. I still can't do it in much less than 2 hours because... I live in LA. Nobody goes 20 miles in less than two hours ;) 4) Even if there was the political will to make it happen, no, not all American cities could look like this without ~20-30 years of rezoning and construction. US city planning is... special. European solutions cannot simply be transferred to the US, as much as I'd wish for that. (Remember, I'm German - I've lived in cities friendly to people, instead of cars. I miss it). And that's why the suggestion of getting rid of the e-car subsidy in favor of bikes won't work in the US. Nobody will use the bikes because the infrastructure doesn't exist. That doesn't mean we shouldn't also work on improving the infrastructure, and on changing city planning, and creating workable public transit, and all those things - but they're long-term projects.