25 ms·

1. Gigantic longevity. Electric Vehicles will likely run 1 million miles or more without requiring any significant repairs except a net battery pack. Interna

1. Gigantic longevity. Electric Vehicles will likely run 1 million miles or more without requiring any significant repairs except a net battery pack. Internal combustion engines develop all kinds of problems related to burning petroleum for energy. 2. No gas charges. For the $35k Tesla, if you get an invite from a current Tesla owner, you can get $1k off and a free lifetime supercharger usage. Supposing you always use a super-charger and had no gas charges, on 200k miles you just saved $25k in gas charges...so your Tesla's net cost came in under $10k!! And it's probably still got a long life ahead of it so would have far more resale value than an internal combustion vehicle with similar mileage. So it makes a lot of sense for everyone really to buy a Tesla :-D! That said if electric vehicles do last far longer than traditional vehicles you could reduce car sales by as much as 75%+...if you add in another trend of transportation-as-a-service via on-demand vehicles (e.g. Uber), that could reduce car sales by a similar amount. Both combined could decimate the current car industry as we know it which has a lot of impacts on inputs e.g. mining for metals, etc. which go into car manufacturing. It does make the world a lot more efficient. If you look around the US, all you see are parking lots and cars everywhere sitting around (for like 97% of their life).

dangrossman 9y ago
1. Lots of things on cars wear out over the years other than the engine/emission system. Some of the most expensive common car repairs are water pumps, AC compressors, brake lines, suspension parts, wheel bearings and brake parts, etc. EVs have all of those things, and they suffer no less wear-and-tear than ICEs. Even a full transmission or engine costs far less than replacing the battery in an EV, too. 2. The referral program is only for the Model S and Model X, which start at $70K. There is no discount and no free charging with the $35K Model 3.
- linkregister 9y ago
  Do EVs have water pumps?
  - dangrossman 9y ago
    Yes. EVs have liquid cooled chargers/inverters, motors, and usually batteries (the Nissan Leaf being the main exception to that). That means they have coolant tanks and water pumps to move the coolant just like an ICE.
    - 205guy 9y ago
      The 2015 Nissan Leaf that I looked at has a liquid cooled charger/inverter. It runs when the car is plugged in, not when driving. It runs off an electric pump and handles fairly low temps, compared to an ICE water pump driven by a belt off the engine and dealing with high temps. The Nissan manual said the coolant is expected to last 100K miles (obviously the equivalent of charging for that many miles).
- outworlder 9y ago
  > EVs have all of those things, and they suffer no less wear-and-tear than ICEs. Brakes suffer less wear and tear. Water pumps may be present, but they are not for the engine. If present, they are usually for an actively cooled battery. They are needed mostly for charging operations and do not run all the time. Meaning less wear and tear on them. They are also electrically operated, so there's no belt wear and tear. Batteries very seldom suffer catastrophic failures, as opposed to, say, a transmission. EVs can be much simpler than ICEs. Currently some of them are not, but they can be. The list of things that EVs do not have is even larger than the things they do have in common with ICEs. Anyway, I will concede the point as being generally true – there are lots of other things that may break and are shared no matter how you power the car. However, there's something that's harder to measure: everyday annoyances caused by parts that are "working", but not as well as they should. Engines with low compression, faulty spark plugs, or partially broken sensors feeding incorrect data to the engine's control unit. Things like that make the car feel "old", cause multiple annoying trips to repair shops, and lead people to replace their cars. Modern AC motors will run much longer, and just as well as when they were brand new. They are certain to outlast the battery that feeds them.
  - dangrossman 9y ago
    I have a Nissan Leaf, which I think is the best-selling EV outside China. It actually doesn't have an actively cooled battery, but like every other EV I'm aware of, it has a water pump and coolant. The pump and fan can be pretty loud actually, especially while charging. It also has all those same problems you described. Noise from the suspension that can't quite be pinpointed. Partially broken sensors feeding incorrect data to the ECU (usually means the 12V battery voltage is low). Failing to turn on then working just fine minutes later. Throwing error messages about brakes, or "t/m malfunction", or going into "turtle mode" when the battery isn't low, or other inscrutable conditions that usually solve themselves but lead to multiple annoying trips to repair shops. Don't you drive a Leaf too?
    - 205guy 9y ago
      I have read forums and talked with many Leaf owners in researching my own purchase, and while there have been a few niggles reported (random charging problems, or noises, or ...), none have listed problems like this, and not all in a single car. I suppose it is possible you got one car with that many problems (or one undiagnosed issue causing many problems), but then you should be returning the car as a lemon or taking the dealer/Nissan to court. For example, going into turtle mode when the battery isn't low would be inexcusable and cause for a complete fix under warranty. But you can read the leaf forums as well as I, you know this is way out of the norms, so why do you write like it's expected of every Leaf? I conclude this is FUD.
linkregister 9y ago
I don't think electric vehicles will average 1 million mile longevity. Sure, they're vastly more reliable than combustion engines, but there are other concerns. Most cars are scrapped due to transmission or engine problems. Don't discount the way car electronics, interiors, and bodies deteriorate. I'm curious how many electrics have been taken out of services for reasons other than collision damage. I couldn't find any reliable information from web searches.
- malandrew 9y ago
  Motors in electric cars are a commodity and the drive train is far simpler. These parts will either last the life of a car or at least be cheap/simple to replace. The wear and tear to the interior of the vehicle over 1 million miles is a greater concern, but even that could be addressed via modularity.
- MarkMc 9y ago
  I wonder how much of a car's depreciation in value is due to simply having an outdated style. If you drive a 10-year old Audi but your neighbour or co-worker has just bought a new Audi, you will feel the need to upgrade even if your car has no mechanical problems.
  - cr0sh 9y ago
    > If you drive a 10-year old Audi but your neighbour or co-worker has just bought a new Audi, you will feel the need to upgrade even if your car has no mechanical problems. I got around that "issue". I drive an almost 20 year old Isuzu VehiCROSS. One the most capable full-time 4WD vehicles around. The thing handles like a sports car whether on pavement or dirt. I bought it used, spent more money fixing it up for daily driver usage, plus added a lift, some rock sliders, and a roof basket, among other upgrades. I may only get 15 mpg from the beast, but none of my neighbors or co-workers own one, and likely never will; it's one of the most unique vehicles you can easily own, since there are less than 5000 in the United States alone. It's also mostly easily repairable, sharing parts with the Rodeo and Trooper (interior and exterior panels excepted). I don't have to worry about what my neighbor owns - my truck (and yes - it is a truck - body on fully-boxed ladder-frame construction with a straight axle rear and IFS front) is so unique, so far I've only seen two others here in Arizona this year (last year I saw about 3, the year before about 5 - and I am certain most of those were "repeats" - there really aren't that many owners of the VX here in Arizona who "daily drive" them). I love driving her - I grin ear-to-ear just thinking about driving my VX.
zeta0134 9y ago
As much as Uber seems to be a shady business all around with their recent legal troubles, one major benefit I've seen is that my family is able to rely on fewer personal cars. There are 7 of us living in this house, all working different jobs and some of us going to school. Coordinating that many destinations and schedules is a major pain, and we did so for a while on 4 cars, with lots of sharing and rides. Uber helped us to fill the gap without being at the mercy of the bus system, and if we leaned on it a bit more, we could reduce our reliance on our cars considerably I think. I don't see this system replacing personal cars in its current form; frankly Uber is far too expensive. But if self-driving cars become a thing, and I could essentially hail a taxi and pay something closer to a bus fare? I'd drop my car in a heartbeat.
- theprop 9y ago
  Less than bus fare. Significantly less bus fare depending on where you live e.g. Japan (where bus fare for short rides can be $20!). I think electric self-driving cars should cost less ten cents per mile.
MarkMc 9y ago
> Both combined could decimate the current car industry as we know it I think this point is not fully appreciated by investors. Even if, say, Tesla execute perfectly and grab 50% of the entire car market, it will not mean much if the market shrinks by 80%.

dangrossman 9y ago

1. Lots of things on cars wear out over the years other than the engine/emission system. Some of the most expensive common car repairs are water pumps, AC compressors, brake lines, suspension parts, wheel bearings and brake parts, etc. EVs have all of those things, and they suffer no less wear-and-tear than ICEs. Even a full transmission or engine costs far less than replacing the battery in an EV, too. 2. The referral program is only for the Model S and Model X, which start at $70K. There is no discount and no free charging with the $35K Model 3.

linkregister 9y ago
Do EVs have water pumps?
- dangrossman 9y ago
  Yes. EVs have liquid cooled chargers/inverters, motors, and usually batteries (the Nissan Leaf being the main exception to that). That means they have coolant tanks and water pumps to move the coolant just like an ICE.
  - 205guy 9y ago
    The 2015 Nissan Leaf that I looked at has a liquid cooled charger/inverter. It runs when the car is plugged in, not when driving. It runs off an electric pump and handles fairly low temps, compared to an ICE water pump driven by a belt off the engine and dealing with high temps. The Nissan manual said the coolant is expected to last 100K miles (obviously the equivalent of charging for that many miles).
outworlder 9y ago
> EVs have all of those things, and they suffer no less wear-and-tear than ICEs. Brakes suffer less wear and tear. Water pumps may be present, but they are not for the engine. If present, they are usually for an actively cooled battery. They are needed mostly for charging operations and do not run all the time. Meaning less wear and tear on them. They are also electrically operated, so there's no belt wear and tear. Batteries very seldom suffer catastrophic failures, as opposed to, say, a transmission. EVs can be much simpler than ICEs. Currently some of them are not, but they can be. The list of things that EVs do not have is even larger than the things they do have in common with ICEs. Anyway, I will concede the point as being generally true – there are lots of other things that may break and are shared no matter how you power the car. However, there's something that's harder to measure: everyday annoyances caused by parts that are "working", but not as well as they should. Engines with low compression, faulty spark plugs, or partially broken sensors feeding incorrect data to the engine's control unit. Things like that make the car feel "old", cause multiple annoying trips to repair shops, and lead people to replace their cars. Modern AC motors will run much longer, and just as well as when they were brand new. They are certain to outlast the battery that feeds them.
- dangrossman 9y ago
  I have a Nissan Leaf, which I think is the best-selling EV outside China. It actually doesn't have an actively cooled battery, but like every other EV I'm aware of, it has a water pump and coolant. The pump and fan can be pretty loud actually, especially while charging. It also has all those same problems you described. Noise from the suspension that can't quite be pinpointed. Partially broken sensors feeding incorrect data to the ECU (usually means the 12V battery voltage is low). Failing to turn on then working just fine minutes later. Throwing error messages about brakes, or "t/m malfunction", or going into "turtle mode" when the battery isn't low, or other inscrutable conditions that usually solve themselves but lead to multiple annoying trips to repair shops. Don't you drive a Leaf too?
  - 205guy 9y ago
    I have read forums and talked with many Leaf owners in researching my own purchase, and while there have been a few niggles reported (random charging problems, or noises, or ...), none have listed problems like this, and not all in a single car. I suppose it is possible you got one car with that many problems (or one undiagnosed issue causing many problems), but then you should be returning the car as a lemon or taking the dealer/Nissan to court. For example, going into turtle mode when the battery isn't low would be inexcusable and cause for a complete fix under warranty. But you can read the leaf forums as well as I, you know this is way out of the norms, so why do you write like it's expected of every Leaf? I conclude this is FUD.

linkregister 9y ago

I don't think electric vehicles will average 1 million mile longevity. Sure, they're vastly more reliable than combustion engines, but there are other concerns. Most cars are scrapped due to transmission or engine problems. Don't discount the way car electronics, interiors, and bodies deteriorate. I'm curious how many electrics have been taken out of services for reasons other than collision damage. I couldn't find any reliable information from web searches.

malandrew 9y ago
Motors in electric cars are a commodity and the drive train is far simpler. These parts will either last the life of a car or at least be cheap/simple to replace. The wear and tear to the interior of the vehicle over 1 million miles is a greater concern, but even that could be addressed via modularity.
MarkMc 9y ago
I wonder how much of a car's depreciation in value is due to simply having an outdated style. If you drive a 10-year old Audi but your neighbour or co-worker has just bought a new Audi, you will feel the need to upgrade even if your car has no mechanical problems.
- cr0sh 9y ago
  > If you drive a 10-year old Audi but your neighbour or co-worker has just bought a new Audi, you will feel the need to upgrade even if your car has no mechanical problems. I got around that "issue". I drive an almost 20 year old Isuzu VehiCROSS. One the most capable full-time 4WD vehicles around. The thing handles like a sports car whether on pavement or dirt. I bought it used, spent more money fixing it up for daily driver usage, plus added a lift, some rock sliders, and a roof basket, among other upgrades. I may only get 15 mpg from the beast, but none of my neighbors or co-workers own one, and likely never will; it's one of the most unique vehicles you can easily own, since there are less than 5000 in the United States alone. It's also mostly easily repairable, sharing parts with the Rodeo and Trooper (interior and exterior panels excepted). I don't have to worry about what my neighbor owns - my truck (and yes - it is a truck - body on fully-boxed ladder-frame construction with a straight axle rear and IFS front) is so unique, so far I've only seen two others here in Arizona this year (last year I saw about 3, the year before about 5 - and I am certain most of those were "repeats" - there really aren't that many owners of the VX here in Arizona who "daily drive" them). I love driving her - I grin ear-to-ear just thinking about driving my VX.

zeta0134 9y ago

As much as Uber seems to be a shady business all around with their recent legal troubles, one major benefit I've seen is that my family is able to rely on fewer personal cars. There are 7 of us living in this house, all working different jobs and some of us going to school. Coordinating that many destinations and schedules is a major pain, and we did so for a while on 4 cars, with lots of sharing and rides. Uber helped us to fill the gap without being at the mercy of the bus system, and if we leaned on it a bit more, we could reduce our reliance on our cars considerably I think. I don't see this system replacing personal cars in its current form; frankly Uber is far too expensive. But if self-driving cars become a thing, and I could essentially hail a taxi and pay something closer to a bus fare? I'd drop my car in a heartbeat.

theprop 9y ago
Less than bus fare. Significantly less bus fare depending on where you live e.g. Japan (where bus fare for short rides can be $20!). I think electric self-driving cars should cost less ten cents per mile.

MarkMc 9y ago

> Both combined could decimate the current car industry as we know it I think this point is not fully appreciated by investors. Even if, say, Tesla execute perfectly and grab 50% of the entire car market, it will not mean much if the market shrinks by 80%.