21 ms·

While this seems drastically unrealistic from the viewpoint of someone in the US... What!? So many people in the US live in urban environments where getting an

While this seems drastically unrealistic from the viewpoint of someone in the US... What!? So many people in the US live in urban environments where getting an oil change and emissions tested is yet another errand and yet another expense. Your "fuel" costs basically get halved. Factor in the time you save by never having to run the myriad errands required of petrol car owners, and if you want to have a shiny, great looking, fun to drive new model car, you're already out ahead! With the subsidy, it's been like that for years, and with the pace of improvements in battery tech and economies of scale, it will also be true without the subsidy.

douche 9y ago
Getting a state inspection and oil change costs about $50, once a year - if you're actually urban, you might not rack up 5k miles in a year, and could get by on a single oil change. Especially if you shelled out a little more for the newer, high-mileage motor oils. I don't know what this myriad of errands you speak of are...
- ryanmarsh 9y ago
  If EV's are at least as reliable as Toyotas that's a lot of expensive errands avoided relative to your average American car. GMs and Fords spend a lot more time in the shop/parking lot of AutoZone.
- pixl97 9y ago
  >and oil change costs about $50, once a year - if you're actually urban, you might not rack up 5k miles in a year, and could get by on a single oil change Um, that's a really bad idea. Even if you are using 5k rated oil, you should get your oil changed every 2.5k or so if you are always in city driving. Why is that? Severe conditions. Pretty much every oil bottle and car manual says change your oil more often in "Severe conditions". Of course most people think of severe as stomping on the gas and going 100mph, or driving in mud and deep water, or something else just as crazy. Of course that's only part of what your manufacturer calls severe, this is also called severe conditions * Driving repeated short distances. * For extended periods of idling or low speed operation. * More than 50% of driving in heavy city traffic in temperatures above 90°F. * If using brakes extensively.
  - douche 9y ago
    To be honest, most of these things, you don't actually care about the engine oil, so much as greasing all the other bearings that are involved in the typical oil-change/service.
  - Taniwha 9y ago
    that's true if you're squirting your oil thru a screaming hot engine full of a thousand moving parts ... on an electric you're really just lubricating the gear train (which is likely simpler because of the greater range of an electric motor) which is not running anywhere as hot as a traditional engine
  - skrause 9y ago
    Why are oil changes so frequent in the USA? Here in Germany the manufacturer's recommendation is usually an oil change every ~10k miles or once a year (whichever come first).
    - jaclaz 9y ago
      It depends on cars, and on quality of oil and on driving style/habits, I had a (German BTW) turbodiesel car where the on-board computer would tell me when the oil change was necessary, and it averaged every 30,000 to 33,000 km (which happened after a little more than one year). I changed car only when (12 years old) it was around 340,000 km without having ever had any engine related issue (and it was still running fine, I changed it only because a relative's car with only 80,000 Km became available).
    - iamatworknow 9y ago
      It's basically the same for modern cars in the US, too. I lease a Toyota Corolla and bring it in for the regular maintenance every 6 months, as instructed. They only change the oil every other visit, or roughly every 10-12k miles. The other visits are just inspections and tire rotations. The maintenance guide says the oil should be changed every 5k miles only if driving under "special operating conditions": - Driving on dirt roads or dusty roads - Driving while towing, using a car-top carrier, or heavy vehicle loading - Repeated trips of less than five miles in temperatures below 32°F / 0°C - Extensive idling and/or low speed driving for a long distance such as police, taxi or door-to-door delivery use
- stcredzero 9y ago
  Errands I recall from the top of my head from having owned various vehicles, exclusive to only those applying to internal combustion vehicles: Repair of the radiator. Emissions testing. Oil change. Repair of the ignition system (90's Honda CRX). Repair of the fuel pump. Change transmission fluid. Replace timing belt. Ignition related tune-up, including change spark plugs (Toyota.) Re-adjustment of ignition timing. (Toyota) Replace car battery. Replace alternator. Replace starter. Younger folks aren't as aware of things like the above, because the details of this are now hidden away behind mandatory dealer visits. Seems like our society is getting more authoritarian and encouraging you to know less. It will be far easier to make electric vehicles reliable and they will be much more reliable than internal combustion engines, and this will save society countless person-hours which can go into other sectors of the economy and human advancement.
mgberlin 9y ago
Of all the words I would use to describe the current electric cars (and hybrids) on the market (except Tesla), "great looking" would not be one of them. I don't understand what they're thinking in designing the boxy, heinous, toy-ish electrics that are available now. I would rather walk then have to ride in a BMW i3 or Nissan Leaf.
- callmeal 9y ago
  I think OP was thinking of this[1] [1] https://www.smartusa.com/models/electric-coupe https://www.smartusa.com/models/electric-coupe
- jadei 9y ago
  As far as all electric I agree with you but for hybrids you have some nice choices. For example, the Ford Fusion hybrid and plugin use the same chassis as the Fusion non-hybrids. Some people even remove the hybrid branding: http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/gallery/image/581-2016-energi-techtronic-silver/ http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/gallery/image/581-2016-...
  - organsnyder 9y ago
    Chrysler's Pacifica PHEV also has really good looks. I think it looks even better than the conventional gas version: https://goo.gl/photos/ptC2XrJ6NnbtaDEE6 https://goo.gl/photos/ptC2XrJ6NnbtaDEE6
- madengr 9y ago
  I have a Leaf and a 4 door Toyota pickup. I'm 6'5" at 240 LB. The Leaf has much more room than the truck. I have 1/2" of headroom in the truck, and no vertical field of view. I have several inches in the Leaf. I can also put the seat all the way back, and put adults in the rear seat. Can't even put a kid in the rear seat of the truck. EV are much roomier than ICE vehicles.
- prawn 9y ago
  "I would rather walk then have to ride in a BMW i3 or Nissan Leaf." I trust that is an exaggeration? Strikes me as a pretty odd attitude. In much of Europe, with tiny streets and parking allowances, I liked that people considered their car more of a practical thing than a fashion choice. In Australia or the US, men act emasculated if they aren't driving a large ute/truck, whereas it's more often the default in Europe that they're just in whatever is easiest to park - a three-door hatch or a small-factor SUV (that would be similar in size to a hatch in Australia).
gambiting 9y ago
What myriad tasks? My oil and everything else that needs changing is changed at the yearly mandatory service. You will have to do it in an electric car too so you're not saving any time here. You will also have to change tyres when they wear out, same as with a normal car, same with brakes and everything else. The only true point here is that the fuel cost is a lot cheaper especially over here with petrol at over $8/US gallon.
- stcredzero 9y ago
  My oil and everything else that needs changing is changed at the yearly mandatory service. You will have to do it in an electric car too so you're not saving any time here. Actually, I don't have that. I have one service based on mileage coming up, which seems like it will be the only one I will ever hit before my lease is up. I've taken it in once for a firmware upgrade, and I've had my EV for a year and a half. (And the dealer washed my car, so for me, it was folded into a car wash errand.)
bluGill 9y ago
> Factor in the time you save by never having to run the myriad errands required of petrol car owners Actually the EV takes MORE time fore those myriad tasks. With the EV you take an extra minute every night to plug it in, and an extra minute to unplug it in the morning (most of this is time to coil the chord - maybe the time is only 30 seconds, it of course depends on how the location of the charger relates to the front door). With a gas car you spend 10 minutes once every two weeks to put in more gas. As a result the EV cots you 5 minutes a week. Note that the time for an EV is part of the routine so it is easy to forget about it, but it is still real time.
- stcredzero 9y ago
  Actually the EV takes MORE time fore those myriad tasks. No, you still save time. Since those 30 seconds are folded into each non-car errand, they really come out of the errand/task-context-switch overhead. By requiring fewer errands, you actually save time.

douche 9y ago

Getting a state inspection and oil change costs about $50, once a year - if you're actually urban, you might not rack up 5k miles in a year, and could get by on a single oil change. Especially if you shelled out a little more for the newer, high-mileage motor oils. I don't know what this myriad of errands you speak of are...

ryanmarsh 9y ago
If EV's are at least as reliable as Toyotas that's a lot of expensive errands avoided relative to your average American car. GMs and Fords spend a lot more time in the shop/parking lot of AutoZone.
pixl97 9y ago
>and oil change costs about $50, once a year - if you're actually urban, you might not rack up 5k miles in a year, and could get by on a single oil change Um, that's a really bad idea. Even if you are using 5k rated oil, you should get your oil changed every 2.5k or so if you are always in city driving. Why is that? Severe conditions. Pretty much every oil bottle and car manual says change your oil more often in "Severe conditions". Of course most people think of severe as stomping on the gas and going 100mph, or driving in mud and deep water, or something else just as crazy. Of course that's only part of what your manufacturer calls severe, this is also called severe conditions * Driving repeated short distances. * For extended periods of idling or low speed operation. * More than 50% of driving in heavy city traffic in temperatures above 90°F. * If using brakes extensively.
- douche 9y ago
  To be honest, most of these things, you don't actually care about the engine oil, so much as greasing all the other bearings that are involved in the typical oil-change/service.
- Taniwha 9y ago
  that's true if you're squirting your oil thru a screaming hot engine full of a thousand moving parts ... on an electric you're really just lubricating the gear train (which is likely simpler because of the greater range of an electric motor) which is not running anywhere as hot as a traditional engine
- skrause 9y ago
  Why are oil changes so frequent in the USA? Here in Germany the manufacturer's recommendation is usually an oil change every ~10k miles or once a year (whichever come first).
  - jaclaz 9y ago
    It depends on cars, and on quality of oil and on driving style/habits, I had a (German BTW) turbodiesel car where the on-board computer would tell me when the oil change was necessary, and it averaged every 30,000 to 33,000 km (which happened after a little more than one year). I changed car only when (12 years old) it was around 340,000 km without having ever had any engine related issue (and it was still running fine, I changed it only because a relative's car with only 80,000 Km became available).
  - iamatworknow 9y ago
    It's basically the same for modern cars in the US, too. I lease a Toyota Corolla and bring it in for the regular maintenance every 6 months, as instructed. They only change the oil every other visit, or roughly every 10-12k miles. The other visits are just inspections and tire rotations. The maintenance guide says the oil should be changed every 5k miles only if driving under "special operating conditions": - Driving on dirt roads or dusty roads - Driving while towing, using a car-top carrier, or heavy vehicle loading - Repeated trips of less than five miles in temperatures below 32°F / 0°C - Extensive idling and/or low speed driving for a long distance such as police, taxi or door-to-door delivery use
stcredzero 9y ago
Errands I recall from the top of my head from having owned various vehicles, exclusive to only those applying to internal combustion vehicles: Repair of the radiator. Emissions testing. Oil change. Repair of the ignition system (90's Honda CRX). Repair of the fuel pump. Change transmission fluid. Replace timing belt. Ignition related tune-up, including change spark plugs (Toyota.) Re-adjustment of ignition timing. (Toyota) Replace car battery. Replace alternator. Replace starter. Younger folks aren't as aware of things like the above, because the details of this are now hidden away behind mandatory dealer visits. Seems like our society is getting more authoritarian and encouraging you to know less. It will be far easier to make electric vehicles reliable and they will be much more reliable than internal combustion engines, and this will save society countless person-hours which can go into other sectors of the economy and human advancement.

mgberlin 9y ago

Of all the words I would use to describe the current electric cars (and hybrids) on the market (except Tesla), "great looking" would not be one of them. I don't understand what they're thinking in designing the boxy, heinous, toy-ish electrics that are available now. I would rather walk then have to ride in a BMW i3 or Nissan Leaf.

callmeal 9y ago
I think OP was thinking of this[1] [1] https://www.smartusa.com/models/electric-coupe https://www.smartusa.com/models/electric-coupe
jadei 9y ago
As far as all electric I agree with you but for hybrids you have some nice choices. For example, the Ford Fusion hybrid and plugin use the same chassis as the Fusion non-hybrids. Some people even remove the hybrid branding: http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/gallery/image/581-2016-energi-techtronic-silver/ http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/gallery/image/581-2016-...
- organsnyder 9y ago
  Chrysler's Pacifica PHEV also has really good looks. I think it looks even better than the conventional gas version: https://goo.gl/photos/ptC2XrJ6NnbtaDEE6 https://goo.gl/photos/ptC2XrJ6NnbtaDEE6
madengr 9y ago
I have a Leaf and a 4 door Toyota pickup. I'm 6'5" at 240 LB. The Leaf has much more room than the truck. I have 1/2" of headroom in the truck, and no vertical field of view. I have several inches in the Leaf. I can also put the seat all the way back, and put adults in the rear seat. Can't even put a kid in the rear seat of the truck. EV are much roomier than ICE vehicles.
prawn 9y ago
"I would rather walk then have to ride in a BMW i3 or Nissan Leaf." I trust that is an exaggeration? Strikes me as a pretty odd attitude. In much of Europe, with tiny streets and parking allowances, I liked that people considered their car more of a practical thing than a fashion choice. In Australia or the US, men act emasculated if they aren't driving a large ute/truck, whereas it's more often the default in Europe that they're just in whatever is easiest to park - a three-door hatch or a small-factor SUV (that would be similar in size to a hatch in Australia).

gambiting 9y ago

What myriad tasks? My oil and everything else that needs changing is changed at the yearly mandatory service. You will have to do it in an electric car too so you're not saving any time here. You will also have to change tyres when they wear out, same as with a normal car, same with brakes and everything else. The only true point here is that the fuel cost is a lot cheaper especially over here with petrol at over $8/US gallon.

stcredzero 9y ago
My oil and everything else that needs changing is changed at the yearly mandatory service. You will have to do it in an electric car too so you're not saving any time here. Actually, I don't have that. I have one service based on mileage coming up, which seems like it will be the only one I will ever hit before my lease is up. I've taken it in once for a firmware upgrade, and I've had my EV for a year and a half. (And the dealer washed my car, so for me, it was folded into a car wash errand.)

bluGill 9y ago

> Factor in the time you save by never having to run the myriad errands required of petrol car owners Actually the EV takes MORE time fore those myriad tasks. With the EV you take an extra minute every night to plug it in, and an extra minute to unplug it in the morning (most of this is time to coil the chord - maybe the time is only 30 seconds, it of course depends on how the location of the charger relates to the front door). With a gas car you spend 10 minutes once every two weeks to put in more gas. As a result the EV cots you 5 minutes a week. Note that the time for an EV is part of the routine so it is easy to forget about it, but it is still real time.

stcredzero 9y ago
Actually the EV takes MORE time fore those myriad tasks. No, you still save time. Since those 30 seconds are folded into each non-car errand, they really come out of the errand/task-context-switch overhead. By requiring fewer errands, you actually save time.