5 ms·

You could give a Tesla buyer $5K tax credit or you could give decently specified bicycles with locks and lights to 10-20 people for the same money. We don't ta

You could give a Tesla buyer $5K tax credit or you could give decently specified bicycles with locks and lights to 10-20 people for the same money. We don't tax non-smokers for daring to breathe nicotine free air, yet we shifted away from governments paying for hospitals with tobacco revenue. Tobacco is crazily expensive nowadays and it takes so long to buy it (with the new all brown packaging looking the same) that it seems to be priced out of accessible addictability. I think ICE motor cars will go the same way, plus there is that external cost of everyone benefiting from clean air.

oh_sigh 9y ago
Giving a bike to a person who may or may not be interested in a bike is a good way for that bike to collect dust in storage(or put up for sale). Heck, even people who go out and spend their own money on bikes frequently end up abandoning them after their motivation wanes
- andys627 9y ago
  It's more about gov't subsidy than personal preference. I hate driving, but my car is definitely not collecting as much dust as I'd like it to. It would be smart of us to have good bike infrastructure - compared to subsidizing personal autos it's cheaper, more capacity, improves local economy, more environmentally sustainable, and lower health costs.
  - oh_sigh 9y ago
    100% agreed! I regretted my comment after I made it because the bike subsidy was just an example, and I responded to the example and not to the actual point of the post.
groby_b 9y ago
Sure. And my dry cleaning, and my weekly shopping all just fit on my bike and.. Oh. Wait. And my friends who live 20+ miles away will be delighted to have me over for dinner after having worked up a sweat. Not to mention being lucky enough to then pedal 2+ hours after that dinner. My partner who's got a back injury? Well, tough for them, they should just stay home. Bikes are a great thing. I have one, and I use it regularly - but they're not an either-or proposition in many environments. The way our cities are structured, we need cars. (On the West Coast. The East Coast has the benefit of a more traditional layout, often making them more walkable)
- Theodores 9y ago
  Sure... I forget HN is USA car culture with no public transit until hyperloops magically happen! This is a cultural difference, you Americans can't even walk unless it is a hike up Half Dome or something, walking to the shops is just not allowed - jaywalking they call it?!? In Europe we have trains for going direct to city or town centre, with plenty of stops in between. I spend quality time with my phone on the train journey there, I arrive alive rather than tired out by breathing the exhaust from the car in front, as happens if you 'sit in traffic' warming the planet. Furthermore, I can drink sociably when out on bike/train - I don't have to ride the road to the station on the way back and I don't have to be the boring driver who cannot go with the party. I also don't disturb people revving an engine late at night or risk the lives of others at the wheel of a two tonne machine. I don't take up parking space or impose on my hosts that they provision parking arrangements for me. As for the sweat thing, that is not a problem on a bike, however, trapped in a tin box, sat on a seat that never gets washed, with 360 degree greenhouse, that can be bad for the sweat thing, even with air-con. I am also not tied to an invisible cord to the car, only able to make a certain amount of paces from it, free rather than chained to all this moral baggage. Dry cleaning? Basic 30 wash for me. Drip dry. I go to weddings, interviews and posh business things, I am even on first name terms with the guy in the dry cleaners, but my needs for dry cleaning are not in your American league of consumerist normality. The idea that I could not do my dry cleaning because I didn't have a car - I so would love to have that problem rather than laugh at those that do. Shopping. Do you Americans eat your own weight in food every 168 hours? Yes growing children do need mountains of food but you can get all that stuff delivered these days and you can pick up really fresh nice food on a daily basis from better shops than that big box store you Americans have to drive to. ...ah backs. Back injuries happen in many ways, IMHO those that don't cycle are headed for back injury from spending too long sitting down, sitting in cars and putting on the pounds. I know you propose 'cars for all' as the only real world way, but what about blind people? Tough for them. Or people with no arms maybe they should just stay at home. That excuse for 'must have cars' is sub-par for HN logical reasoning.
  - grzm 9y ago
    > I forget HN is USA car culture with no public transit until hyperloops magically happen! > Do you Americans eat your own weight in food every 168 hours? Please just don't. Building upon and reinforcing stereotypes doesn't add to the discussion. Regardless of what you're responding to, do better than this. Some people don't have access to good public transportation: that's just a fact. Sharing how you approach life is great. Doing so in a way that bashes a group of people—regardless of what group it is—isn't helpful or make your statements amenable to reasoned consideration. HN is a community you choose to participate in. Are you accurately described by the statements you attribute to the HN community?

oh_sigh 9y ago

Giving a bike to a person who may or may not be interested in a bike is a good way for that bike to collect dust in storage(or put up for sale). Heck, even people who go out and spend their own money on bikes frequently end up abandoning them after their motivation wanes

andys627 9y ago
It's more about gov't subsidy than personal preference. I hate driving, but my car is definitely not collecting as much dust as I'd like it to. It would be smart of us to have good bike infrastructure - compared to subsidizing personal autos it's cheaper, more capacity, improves local economy, more environmentally sustainable, and lower health costs.
- oh_sigh 9y ago
  100% agreed! I regretted my comment after I made it because the bike subsidy was just an example, and I responded to the example and not to the actual point of the post.

groby_b 9y ago

Sure. And my dry cleaning, and my weekly shopping all just fit on my bike and.. Oh. Wait. And my friends who live 20+ miles away will be delighted to have me over for dinner after having worked up a sweat. Not to mention being lucky enough to then pedal 2+ hours after that dinner. My partner who's got a back injury? Well, tough for them, they should just stay home. Bikes are a great thing. I have one, and I use it regularly - but they're not an either-or proposition in many environments. The way our cities are structured, we need cars. (On the West Coast. The East Coast has the benefit of a more traditional layout, often making them more walkable)

Theodores 9y ago
Sure... I forget HN is USA car culture with no public transit until hyperloops magically happen! This is a cultural difference, you Americans can't even walk unless it is a hike up Half Dome or something, walking to the shops is just not allowed - jaywalking they call it?!? In Europe we have trains for going direct to city or town centre, with plenty of stops in between. I spend quality time with my phone on the train journey there, I arrive alive rather than tired out by breathing the exhaust from the car in front, as happens if you 'sit in traffic' warming the planet. Furthermore, I can drink sociably when out on bike/train - I don't have to ride the road to the station on the way back and I don't have to be the boring driver who cannot go with the party. I also don't disturb people revving an engine late at night or risk the lives of others at the wheel of a two tonne machine. I don't take up parking space or impose on my hosts that they provision parking arrangements for me. As for the sweat thing, that is not a problem on a bike, however, trapped in a tin box, sat on a seat that never gets washed, with 360 degree greenhouse, that can be bad for the sweat thing, even with air-con. I am also not tied to an invisible cord to the car, only able to make a certain amount of paces from it, free rather than chained to all this moral baggage. Dry cleaning? Basic 30 wash for me. Drip dry. I go to weddings, interviews and posh business things, I am even on first name terms with the guy in the dry cleaners, but my needs for dry cleaning are not in your American league of consumerist normality. The idea that I could not do my dry cleaning because I didn't have a car - I so would love to have that problem rather than laugh at those that do. Shopping. Do you Americans eat your own weight in food every 168 hours? Yes growing children do need mountains of food but you can get all that stuff delivered these days and you can pick up really fresh nice food on a daily basis from better shops than that big box store you Americans have to drive to. ...ah backs. Back injuries happen in many ways, IMHO those that don't cycle are headed for back injury from spending too long sitting down, sitting in cars and putting on the pounds. I know you propose 'cars for all' as the only real world way, but what about blind people? Tough for them. Or people with no arms maybe they should just stay at home. That excuse for 'must have cars' is sub-par for HN logical reasoning.
- grzm 9y ago
  > I forget HN is USA car culture with no public transit until hyperloops magically happen! > Do you Americans eat your own weight in food every 168 hours? Please just don't. Building upon and reinforcing stereotypes doesn't add to the discussion. Regardless of what you're responding to, do better than this. Some people don't have access to good public transportation: that's just a fact. Sharing how you approach life is great. Doing so in a way that bashes a group of people—regardless of what group it is—isn't helpful or make your statements amenable to reasoned consideration. HN is a community you choose to participate in. Are you accurately described by the statements you attribute to the HN community?