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The way we regulate in a lot of Europe, may hit some issues as more electrics go on the road. Petrol taxes are a pretty important revenue source. Exempting ele
by netcan 9y ago
The way we regulate in a lot of Europe, may hit some issues as more electrics go on the road. Petrol taxes are a pretty important revenue source. Exempting electrics from that (by default) and all the other taxes help make them viable will eventually result in a meaningful revenue loss. It's also problematic to selectively benefit people who buy new cars and can afford to pay more upfront but less in running costs.
We'll have to tax them eventually.
- omegaworks 9y agoDisposal costs will likely be higher for electric cars. Huge battery packs with lots of lead-acid and/or lithium inside. Seems like a good externalized cost to target.
- abraae 9y agoLead-acid batteries are the poster boys of recycling.
- douche 9y agoTrue. Almost every bullet that is produced today is made from recycled car batteries.
- pi-rat 9y agoCells from EVs will likely be downcycled for use as stationary storage (think Tesla's Powerwall and similar). Often only a couple of cells go bad in a pack, so they are easy to repurpose. In Norway some of the larger charging sites have huge stationary batteries as buffers (evens out spikes and act as phase balancing). You can recycle 100% of the lithium in a li-ion battery, but atm it's more costly to recycle than just mine the stuff - hopefully this will change in the near future.
- _pmf_ 9y ago> Cells from EVs will likely be downcycled for use as stationary storage (think Tesla's Powerwall and similar). Highly unlikely due to liability reasons. Remember the Galaxy 8? QC for batteries is demanding; QC for refurbished batteries is impossible.
- Theodores 9y agoYou could give a Tesla buyer $5K tax credit or you could give decently specified bicycles with locks and lights to 10-20 people for the same money. We don't tax non-smokers for daring to breathe nicotine free air, yet we shifted away from governments paying for hospitals with tobacco revenue. Tobacco is crazily expensive nowadays and it takes so long to buy it (with the new all brown packaging looking the same) that it seems to be priced out of accessible addictability. I think ICE motor cars will go the same way, plus there is that external cost of everyone benefiting from clean air.
- oh_sigh 9y agoGiving a bike to a person who may or may not be interested in a bike is a good way for that bike to collect dust in storage(or put up for sale). Heck, even people who go out and spend their own money on bikes frequently end up abandoning them after their motivation wanes
- andys627 9y agoIt's more about gov't subsidy than personal preference. I hate driving, but my car is definitely not collecting as much dust as I'd like it to. It would be smart of us to have good bike infrastructure - compared to subsidizing personal autos it's cheaper, more capacity, improves local economy, more environmentally sustainable, and lower health costs.
- oh_sigh 9y ago100% agreed! I regretted my comment after I made it because the bike subsidy was just an example, and I responded to the example and not to the actual point of the post.
- groby_b 9y agoSure. And my dry cleaning, and my weekly shopping all just fit on my bike and.. Oh. Wait. And my friends who live 20+ miles away will be delighted to have me over for dinner after having worked up a sweat. Not to mention being lucky enough to then pedal 2+ hours after that dinner. My partner who's got a back injury? Well, tough for them, they should just stay home. Bikes are a great thing. I have one, and I use it regularly - but they're not an either-or proposition in many environments. The way our cities are structured, we need cars. (On the West Coast. The East Coast has the benefit of a more traditional layout, often making them more walkable)
- bjelkeman-again 9y agoTaxing electricity will increase the cost of heating, lighting etc. It will be interesting to see how this works out.
- figers 9y agoThen I'll just add more solar panels and go off grid
- bjelkeman-again 9y agoSome countries are considering taxing your own production. In many countries the tax on fossile fuel is an important income for the state. The money needs to come from somewhere. (It seems very shortsighted to penalise expansion of solar power right now though.) http://www.energinyheter.se/20161227/15749/regeringen-svanger-om-skatt-pa-solel http://www.energinyheter.se/20161227/15749/regeringen-svange...
- figers 9y agoIf I produce solar energy to be stored in a few Tesla power walls for my own usage I don't see how they'll be able to tax me. I own and control all the hardware and monitoring and could modify accordingly.
- bjelkeman-again 9y agoThey estimate and tax.
- greglindahl 9y agoCalifornia just added a $100/year/EV tax. 100% EV sales just crossed 1% of the California market so it's not a big issue yet.
- MrFantastic 9y agoMore toll roads is the market based way. Even libertarians hate toll roads in practice but it would reduce traffic in big cities. The suburban commuters flood the interstates but don't pay for infrastructure.
- linkregister 9y agoI bet most drivers would hate toll roads much less if they didn't clog traffic. There are a toll plazas around the U.S. that don't require drivers to slow down while driving through. Once these are the norm, I would expect tolls to be less unpopular. Edit: I guess they're still unpopular.
- winstonewert 9y agoWell, here in British Columbia we had toll roads that worked exactly that way. They were very unpopular, and played a role in the governing party losing the election. So I'm afraid: that's not going to resolve the unpopularity.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- jsight 9y agoTrue, I think. The approach used on the Mass Turnpike seems pretty good.
- prawn 9y agoMy favourite tollbooth in the US was one where I handed cash to the attendant who gave me change and then paid the toll with coins by reaching outside their booth and depositing them in the machine.
- irixusr 9y agoWhy would libertarians hate tolls? If anything they hate free public roads. Privatize, charge a bundle to use them and they're happy like pigs in poop!