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There's human ingenuity in applying computer optimization techniques to a given problem. Actually using finite or boundary element analysis software requires a

by krapht 9y ago

There's human ingenuity in applying computer optimization techniques to a given problem. Actually using finite or boundary element analysis software requires a great deal of expertise in order not to get garbage results out. Strong AI is not coming anytime soon. People will still be necessary.

ThomPete 9y ago
Thats really not true. Humans don't know how it works. Just that it does.
- krapht 9y ago
  I'm not sure how much effort I want to spend arguing this. Have you ever used FEM/BEM software as a practicing engineer? In many cases, the design effort moves from making the structure to writing out all the possible structure constraints the design needs to satisfy. PS. This is not new at all if you look at the literature.
  - ThomPete 9y ago
    You claimed human ingenuity was necessary yet here is an example of a solution that no human could have thought up or would have needed years to calculate yet it's better than any humans could have come up with. I.e. computers are already used for ingenious solutions and that's really all that matters here.
    - krapht 9y ago
      Human ingenuity is needed for sanity checking the design output and ensuring the search space is sufficiently constrained so that a valid design is output. To say humans have no place in this is the same as saying in the future, my compiler will be so smart human programmers won't be necessary. Frankly that design is cool but not mind blowing. If you knew how much angst computer optimization packages can put you through, you might be more cynical. Even before NNs were all the rage there were (ex: genetic techniques, hill-climbing, simulated annealing, Monte-Carlo, pick-your-optimization-technique) to do exactly the things which that Twitter post referenced.
      - ThomPete 9y ago
        I think you are mixing two different discussions. 1) AI is not there 2) Human ingenuity is necessary. With regards to 1) of course it's not there yet. But the progress is astounding and quite a few things will be possible even before we get to strong AI. With regards to 2) already today there are several areas where technology is better than humans to detect mistakes. In fact we use computers in many cases to test our work. This is an increasing trend and will result in end to end computer design and implemented solutions.

by krapht 9y ago

ThomPete 9y ago

Thats really not true. Humans don't know how it works. Just that it does.

krapht 9y ago
I'm not sure how much effort I want to spend arguing this. Have you ever used FEM/BEM software as a practicing engineer? In many cases, the design effort moves from making the structure to writing out all the possible structure constraints the design needs to satisfy. PS. This is not new at all if you look at the literature.
- ThomPete 9y ago
  You claimed human ingenuity was necessary yet here is an example of a solution that no human could have thought up or would have needed years to calculate yet it's better than any humans could have come up with. I.e. computers are already used for ingenious solutions and that's really all that matters here.
  - krapht 9y ago
    Human ingenuity is needed for sanity checking the design output and ensuring the search space is sufficiently constrained so that a valid design is output. To say humans have no place in this is the same as saying in the future, my compiler will be so smart human programmers won't be necessary. Frankly that design is cool but not mind blowing. If you knew how much angst computer optimization packages can put you through, you might be more cynical. Even before NNs were all the rage there were (ex: genetic techniques, hill-climbing, simulated annealing, Monte-Carlo, pick-your-optimization-technique) to do exactly the things which that Twitter post referenced.
    - ThomPete 9y ago
      I think you are mixing two different discussions. 1) AI is not there 2) Human ingenuity is necessary. With regards to 1) of course it's not there yet. But the progress is astounding and quite a few things will be possible even before we get to strong AI. With regards to 2) already today there are several areas where technology is better than humans to detect mistakes. In fact we use computers in many cases to test our work. This is an increasing trend and will result in end to end computer design and implemented solutions.