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> This all smacks of a language that isn't very mature, at least for general-purpose programming. Could you clarify what "smacks" of a language that isn't very

> This all smacks of a language that isn't very mature, at least for general-purpose programming. Could you clarify what "smacks" of a language that isn't very mature? There are libraries written in any language that are not tuned for performance. The goal of this post is to show that poor performance of a single library should not be interpreted as poor performance of a language feature that this library uses... Instead you must rigorously evaluate performance issues. (And also provide feedback to language implementors) It is true that builtin libraries could have provided a better JSON deserialization support... So if your definition of an immature general-purpose language depends on whether or not there is a fast JSON deserialize built right into the core libraries - then Dart certainly does not pass. However one can also define a general purpose programming language as a language in which programmer could efficiently implement all sorts of things, including but not limited to an efficient JSON deserializer - which seems to be the case for Dart. > why would I choose Dart over Go? I don't know. Why do you have to choose Dart over Go? You choose want you like most and what makes you most productive. For me it would be Dart for you it might be Go. Such is life. Not everybody has to write everything in the same language. We can offer you to try Dart. You can refuse to try. You can also try it and then refuse to use it... Endless possibilities :)

iainmerrick 9y ago
Could you clarify what "smacks" of a language that isn't very mature? There are libraries written in any language that are not tuned for performance. ("Smacks" isn't meant to be pejorative, I guess it's just a British idiom. I just meant "appears to be" or "comes across as") Sure -- to clarify, I think reflection is a pretty important language feature, but it sounds like it's unnecessarily slow on the native target and not really usable on the JS target. It wasn't clear to me whether this JSON parser was a widely-used core library, or just a random third-party one. But a good fast strongly-typed JSON I/O library also seems like something a good new general-purpose programming language ought to have. Maybe it's unfair to extrapolate so much from this one example, but I hardly hear anything about Dart at all. I was interested to see what I assumed was a Dart advocacy post show up on HN, but on reading it, found it didn't make Dart sound very appealing. > why would I choose Dart over Go? I don't know. Why do you have to choose Dart over Go? I'm not trying to start a language war (I kind of picked Go at random, mostly because it was also started by Google). But I think it's a reasonable question, and there's room for a bit of advocacy here. If people like Dart, what do they like about it?
- skybrian 9y ago
  At Google, it's heavily used by Adwords. Building very large desktop web apps (with many screens, large tables displaying lots of data, material design, etc) with AngularDart is a sweet spot. Tiny mobile web apps for slow networks haven't been a focus (yet). The other major use is for Flutter (cross-platform mobile app development), which is in alpha. Outside Google, a developer advocate could tell you more but I don't think there's a central theme yet; various teams use it who like the language. Sass is using it, for example. If you're looking for a fast VM and care more about type checking than about JavaScript or Lua compatibility, you might want to try it out.

iainmerrick 9y ago

Could you clarify what "smacks" of a language that isn't very mature? There are libraries written in any language that are not tuned for performance. ("Smacks" isn't meant to be pejorative, I guess it's just a British idiom. I just meant "appears to be" or "comes across as") Sure -- to clarify, I think reflection is a pretty important language feature, but it sounds like it's unnecessarily slow on the native target and not really usable on the JS target. It wasn't clear to me whether this JSON parser was a widely-used core library, or just a random third-party one. But a good fast strongly-typed JSON I/O library also seems like something a good new general-purpose programming language ought to have. Maybe it's unfair to extrapolate so much from this one example, but I hardly hear anything about Dart at all. I was interested to see what I assumed was a Dart advocacy post show up on HN, but on reading it, found it didn't make Dart sound very appealing. > why would I choose Dart over Go? I don't know. Why do you have to choose Dart over Go? I'm not trying to start a language war (I kind of picked Go at random, mostly because it was also started by Google). But I think it's a reasonable question, and there's room for a bit of advocacy here. If people like Dart, what do they like about it?

skybrian 9y ago
At Google, it's heavily used by Adwords. Building very large desktop web apps (with many screens, large tables displaying lots of data, material design, etc) with AngularDart is a sweet spot. Tiny mobile web apps for slow networks haven't been a focus (yet). The other major use is for Flutter (cross-platform mobile app development), which is in alpha. Outside Google, a developer advocate could tell you more but I don't think there's a central theme yet; various teams use it who like the language. Sass is using it, for example. If you're looking for a fast VM and care more about type checking than about JavaScript or Lua compatibility, you might want to try it out.