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In short, the sale of a product does not allow you to control what is done with the product afterwards through patent law. I'm assuming this is almost similar

by awjr 9y ago

In short, the sale of a product does not allow you to control what is done with the product afterwards through patent law. I'm assuming this is almost similar to attempts to use copyright law to stop the sale of products on the grey market. http://www.bipc.com/court-rebuffs-attempt-to-use-copyright-law-to-prevent-grey-market-imports http://www.bipc.com/court-rebuffs-attempt-to-use-copyright-l... I do wonder though, if they changed the underlying software on the cartridges they would get into trouble. I do not see this stopping John Deere's practice of locking up their hardware through copyright laws. https://www.wired.com/2015/02/new-high-tech-farm-equipment-nightmare-farmers/ https://www.wired.com/2015/02/new-high-tech-farm-equipment-n...

tr1ck5t3r 9y ago
Tell Microsoft, Intel, AMD, Apple, Samsung, HP, Dell, GM, Volvo, Ford, VW, in fact any company that makes things. What a little stick in a wasps nest!
balls187 9y ago
Interesting that even with importation fees, it was cheaper for Costco to import watches.
- schoen 9y ago
  That's especially likely to happen when manufacturers are deliberately trying to charge very different prices in different markets (like you see in a lot of parallel importation cases). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_segmentation#Geographic_segmentation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_segmentation#Geographic... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination#International_price_discrimination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination#Internati... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_import https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_import
- icantdrive55 9y ago
  On the right day, you can get a high end watch for a lot less than going into a boutique. I bought a Omage Aquaterra, with the big white dial for $1400 years ago. This watch was going for $3500 in the authorized retail stores. Swatch took Costco to court, and lost. There's no factory warranty, but most of these new high end watches will keep perfect time for 10 plus years. Oh yea, Costco does have some watchmaker that supposedly repairs watches. I can repair, so I don't trust anyone anymore. It's too bad companies continually screw Americans on price, on so many products--the medication cost difference really bothers me.
  - 24gttghh 9y ago
    Besides the obvious battery life and water-resistant depth, what is the functional difference between that $1400 watch and the $20 Casio I just bought for my girlfriend?
    - nyolfen 9y ago
      people who like expensive watches (ie other rich people) can tell that his is expensive, so he's part of the ingroup. it's an impractical amount of money to spend, even at his steep discount, on something that is also functionally outmoded for most people by smartphones, and thus acts as a high-cost (honest) social signal. some people also like sophisticated physical mechanics (likely including GP, since he can repair watches), but i believe that's typically secondary.
      - ruste 9y ago
        It's kind of interesting that we've come full circle. We started with pocket watches and moved to wristwatches when it was too inconvenient to take something out of your pocket to check the time in the trenches of WWI. Now we've transitioned back to pocket watches in the form of a phone because it's "more convenient."
    - xraystyle 9y ago
      High end watches serve the same function as jewelry. They're also magnificent pieces of art and engineering in many cases. If you just want something that keeps time, the $20 Casio is fine. In fact, most people I know just look at their phones. However, there's elegance and sophistication present in a luxury watch that you don't get with a simple digital watch.
pitaj 9y ago
I was under the impression that John Deere's restrictions were licensing-based. But maybe they rely on copyright as well?
- zardo 9y ago
  They did, untill it they lost the ability to do so under the DMCA back in 2015. All though they could be re-allowed in 2018. The library of Congress gets to reinterpret it every three years.
  - indolering 9y ago
    It will be renewed: there is zero evidence of John Deere being harmed by others performing warranty-voiding repairs. That and it effectively divides up lobbying power against the DMCA. It doesn't matter if the analog loophole effectively dooms all forms of DRM on music, video, and books or that video game DRM is always hacked within a few months. What matters is that snake-oil salesmen have convinced Hollywood that it's a good idea and they have a very effective lobbying group.
- quadrangle 9y ago
  Software licenses are copyright licenses.
  - pitaj 9y ago
    No, as in the machines are licensed from JD, and therefore they can't modify the software.
quadrangle 9y ago
John Deere's stuff can be seen as a legal quirk that actually SHOULD be unconstitutional and the [EFF's Apollo 1201](https://www.eff.org/press/releases/cory-doctorow-rejoins-eff-eradicate-drm-everywhere https://www.eff.org/press/releases/cory-doctorow-rejoins-eff...) project is specifically aiming to find just the right case(s) to take all the way to SCOTUS to declare this.

by awjr 9y ago

tr1ck5t3r 9y ago

Tell Microsoft, Intel, AMD, Apple, Samsung, HP, Dell, GM, Volvo, Ford, VW, in fact any company that makes things. What a little stick in a wasps nest!

balls187 9y ago

Interesting that even with importation fees, it was cheaper for Costco to import watches.

schoen 9y ago
That's especially likely to happen when manufacturers are deliberately trying to charge very different prices in different markets (like you see in a lot of parallel importation cases). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_segmentation#Geographic_segmentation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_segmentation#Geographic... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination#International_price_discrimination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination#Internati... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_import https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_import
icantdrive55 9y ago
On the right day, you can get a high end watch for a lot less than going into a boutique. I bought a Omage Aquaterra, with the big white dial for $1400 years ago. This watch was going for $3500 in the authorized retail stores. Swatch took Costco to court, and lost. There's no factory warranty, but most of these new high end watches will keep perfect time for 10 plus years. Oh yea, Costco does have some watchmaker that supposedly repairs watches. I can repair, so I don't trust anyone anymore. It's too bad companies continually screw Americans on price, on so many products--the medication cost difference really bothers me.
- 24gttghh 9y ago
  Besides the obvious battery life and water-resistant depth, what is the functional difference between that $1400 watch and the $20 Casio I just bought for my girlfriend?
  - nyolfen 9y ago
    people who like expensive watches (ie other rich people) can tell that his is expensive, so he's part of the ingroup. it's an impractical amount of money to spend, even at his steep discount, on something that is also functionally outmoded for most people by smartphones, and thus acts as a high-cost (honest) social signal. some people also like sophisticated physical mechanics (likely including GP, since he can repair watches), but i believe that's typically secondary.
    - ruste 9y ago
      It's kind of interesting that we've come full circle. We started with pocket watches and moved to wristwatches when it was too inconvenient to take something out of your pocket to check the time in the trenches of WWI. Now we've transitioned back to pocket watches in the form of a phone because it's "more convenient."
  - xraystyle 9y ago
    High end watches serve the same function as jewelry. They're also magnificent pieces of art and engineering in many cases. If you just want something that keeps time, the $20 Casio is fine. In fact, most people I know just look at their phones. However, there's elegance and sophistication present in a luxury watch that you don't get with a simple digital watch.

pitaj 9y ago

I was under the impression that John Deere's restrictions were licensing-based. But maybe they rely on copyright as well?

zardo 9y ago
They did, untill it they lost the ability to do so under the DMCA back in 2015. All though they could be re-allowed in 2018. The library of Congress gets to reinterpret it every three years.
- indolering 9y ago
  It will be renewed: there is zero evidence of John Deere being harmed by others performing warranty-voiding repairs. That and it effectively divides up lobbying power against the DMCA. It doesn't matter if the analog loophole effectively dooms all forms of DRM on music, video, and books or that video game DRM is always hacked within a few months. What matters is that snake-oil salesmen have convinced Hollywood that it's a good idea and they have a very effective lobbying group.
quadrangle 9y ago
Software licenses are copyright licenses.
- pitaj 9y ago
  No, as in the machines are licensed from JD, and therefore they can't modify the software.

quadrangle 9y ago

John Deere's stuff can be seen as a legal quirk that actually SHOULD be unconstitutional and the [EFF's Apollo 1201](https://www.eff.org/press/releases/cory-doctorow-rejoins-eff-eradicate-drm-everywhere https://www.eff.org/press/releases/cory-doctorow-rejoins-eff...) project is specifically aiming to find just the right case(s) to take all the way to SCOTUS to declare this.