8 ms·

> little to no concentration and a very low level of comprehension This might sound like a flippant response but it's not: could you move into management? You

> little to no concentration and a very low level of comprehension This might sound like a flippant response but it's not: could you move into management? You don't need to know the finer details, but you'd have the experience required to empathise with the developers in your team.

arethuza 9y ago
You might have something there - I've seen quite a few people over the years try and move from a technical role to a managerial role fail because they can't cope with not being allowed to focus on something to the exclusion of other items.
- watwut 9y ago
  I agree. Low level of comprehension due to illness may make management position hell. Half managers success is dealing with politics and various competitors/customers/employees will take advantage of that condition.
yeukhon 9y ago
I think this may backfire even more. Sure there are stories about how one can get by as a manager without knowing much or doing much, but that's rare. As a manager you have to answer to your boss and make sure team delivery is met. You will need to do budget and stay current with what's happening at work, so that you don't become clueless in meetings. This can be stressful at work since politics is inevitable.
- kbart 9y ago
  Nothing you've described here requires deeper understanding or extensive concentration and can be done in ad-hoc manner.
  - yeukhon 9y ago
    Then you fail as a manager. Sorry our view on what's a good manager is different.
- UK-AL 9y ago
  Yes, but all these things are "bigger picture" stuff. It's not trying to comprehend 1000 little things at the same time using deep concentration, as a software developer does.
  - yeukhon 9y ago
    Not really. If you aren't able to concentrate for a long time, how can you join a meeting and catch the important stuff? If your mind is wandering and you appear to ask questions which have been answered you are going to sound like you didn't pay attention. I have seen people struggle to keep up because they have so many meetings so many emails and so many questions to take care. Sure you donmt code anymore, but you have a lot of little things to take care of. I work in infrastructure/operation so maybe that's different from a manager working on iOS product. Point is you will get frustrated and that's bad. It lowers your confidence, maybe.
  - satwikhebbar 9y ago
    My experience is limited to product development teams, however where I've worked managers are basically tasked with people management, technical leadership and cross-team relationship management. You are expected to know enough details about what every single member of your team does as well as what other teams are upto at a broad level, so you can act as the tie breaker when critical decisions need to be made. This is very much like holding 1000 different things in your head at a time except maybe not to a great depth. The biggest challenge I've faced switching from developer to manager is being in the middle of all that flies through your team and seamlessly context switching at a moment's notice. It's not deep concentration on one goal but simultaneously chipping away on multiple goals.
  - pkaye 9y ago
    Speaking from my own experience it can still be a challenge because you have to context switch a lot and never go deep enough to truly understand a problem. You are relying on your engineers to be your eyes and ears. If you have all good people in your team you are really lucky. Otherwise it is a balancing game coaching some engineers to learn and get better, quickly figuring out solutions to technical problems that are raised, fighting back the upper management pressure while not trying to frustrate your team.
- philbarr 9y ago
  I didn't really mean, "not doing much", but more like being the type of manager that lets the team get on with the work by removing as much of the day to day business nonsense as possible.
danschumann 9y ago
As Elon Musk put it, ~"Managers receive the greatest distillation of all the problems. They have the worst job" They are the ones expected to solve the hardest problems. If someone can't figure it out, it gets pushed up the chain.
- JoeAltmaier 9y ago
  Managers generally solve no problems. Not engineering ones anyway. They are responsible only for applying the proper resources to get problems solved.
  - SmellTheGlove 9y ago
    That's gross oversimplification. In some models, some managers are pure resource managers as you're describing. A lot of us are functional managers, though. I own the outcome. It's become really common in engineering, particularly in orgs doing agile, to split resource and functional management. I don't care for that. I spent a long time as a product owner and wondered quite often why I couldn't just absorb the resource manager's responsibilities as well, since the only thing I wasn't doing was writing reviews. Every other problem rolled up to me, since I was accountable for the outcome.
  - PaulRobinson 9y ago
    That's an absurd generalisation, and you should probably stop thinking Dilbert is a useful guide to most workplaces. Some companies work that way, but they are bad companies to work for, IME. Other companies, managers have got where they are because they know more than anybody else and have the personal skills to marshal a team into solving bigger problems than what is on the board for this sprint alone. Source: ex-CTO, now Senior Engineer again, done every level of management you can think of, choose to be where I am for a reason, but do not think managers are idiots.
    - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
      A manager that is doing the job right, is managing. Resources, people, time. Not doing Engineering. Call yourself an idiot if you like (I don't think I said that anywhere?) Managing is a difficult task that requires knowledge and skills. But not Engineering ones. There's another name for when a Manager is telling his Engineers how to solve problems: micro-managing
SmellTheGlove 9y ago
Disclosure: Am manager. Bad idea. Managers need to know a different set of finer details, not none at all. While individuals on a team have to get deep into the details of what they're doing, managers need to work at the edges - where what Team X is doing integrates with V, Y and Z; and longer term, how what all of those teams are doing now fits in with the work lined up 6-24 months down the road. That's a full time job, even before we've actually done any managing of our individuals. Maybe this gives you some insight, but that's actually why (in my opinion) the first things to fall off with poor managers are 1x1s, meaningful coaching, etc. Managers also have the stresses of accountability and expectations. There are days where I wish I was still an individual contributor.
TallGuyShort 9y ago
I had a manager like this. Didn't know the finer details of what I worked on, had the experience to empathize, but was primarily a resource manager / ran interference for distractions. I liked him at the time, but once I had a new manager I was blown away at everything I was missing from a more fully-qualified manager. Now that I recognize that kind of manager - I see a lot of them. OP probably could make it as a manager - and I say that from having seen so many of these managers move up the chain. But I think other commenters are right: managers shouldn't believe they don't need to comprehend details.
chrismealy 9y ago
Maybe your health problems would prevent you from being the best manager but there's no shame in being a good enough manager.

arethuza 9y ago

You might have something there - I've seen quite a few people over the years try and move from a technical role to a managerial role fail because they can't cope with not being allowed to focus on something to the exclusion of other items.

watwut 9y ago
I agree. Low level of comprehension due to illness may make management position hell. Half managers success is dealing with politics and various competitors/customers/employees will take advantage of that condition.

yeukhon 9y ago

I think this may backfire even more. Sure there are stories about how one can get by as a manager without knowing much or doing much, but that's rare. As a manager you have to answer to your boss and make sure team delivery is met. You will need to do budget and stay current with what's happening at work, so that you don't become clueless in meetings. This can be stressful at work since politics is inevitable.

kbart 9y ago
Nothing you've described here requires deeper understanding or extensive concentration and can be done in ad-hoc manner.
- yeukhon 9y ago
  Then you fail as a manager. Sorry our view on what's a good manager is different.
UK-AL 9y ago
Yes, but all these things are "bigger picture" stuff. It's not trying to comprehend 1000 little things at the same time using deep concentration, as a software developer does.
- yeukhon 9y ago
  Not really. If you aren't able to concentrate for a long time, how can you join a meeting and catch the important stuff? If your mind is wandering and you appear to ask questions which have been answered you are going to sound like you didn't pay attention. I have seen people struggle to keep up because they have so many meetings so many emails and so many questions to take care. Sure you donmt code anymore, but you have a lot of little things to take care of. I work in infrastructure/operation so maybe that's different from a manager working on iOS product. Point is you will get frustrated and that's bad. It lowers your confidence, maybe.
- satwikhebbar 9y ago
  My experience is limited to product development teams, however where I've worked managers are basically tasked with people management, technical leadership and cross-team relationship management. You are expected to know enough details about what every single member of your team does as well as what other teams are upto at a broad level, so you can act as the tie breaker when critical decisions need to be made. This is very much like holding 1000 different things in your head at a time except maybe not to a great depth. The biggest challenge I've faced switching from developer to manager is being in the middle of all that flies through your team and seamlessly context switching at a moment's notice. It's not deep concentration on one goal but simultaneously chipping away on multiple goals.
- pkaye 9y ago
  Speaking from my own experience it can still be a challenge because you have to context switch a lot and never go deep enough to truly understand a problem. You are relying on your engineers to be your eyes and ears. If you have all good people in your team you are really lucky. Otherwise it is a balancing game coaching some engineers to learn and get better, quickly figuring out solutions to technical problems that are raised, fighting back the upper management pressure while not trying to frustrate your team.
philbarr 9y ago
I didn't really mean, "not doing much", but more like being the type of manager that lets the team get on with the work by removing as much of the day to day business nonsense as possible.

danschumann 9y ago

As Elon Musk put it, ~"Managers receive the greatest distillation of all the problems. They have the worst job" They are the ones expected to solve the hardest problems. If someone can't figure it out, it gets pushed up the chain.

JoeAltmaier 9y ago
Managers generally solve no problems. Not engineering ones anyway. They are responsible only for applying the proper resources to get problems solved.
- SmellTheGlove 9y ago
  That's gross oversimplification. In some models, some managers are pure resource managers as you're describing. A lot of us are functional managers, though. I own the outcome. It's become really common in engineering, particularly in orgs doing agile, to split resource and functional management. I don't care for that. I spent a long time as a product owner and wondered quite often why I couldn't just absorb the resource manager's responsibilities as well, since the only thing I wasn't doing was writing reviews. Every other problem rolled up to me, since I was accountable for the outcome.
- PaulRobinson 9y ago
  That's an absurd generalisation, and you should probably stop thinking Dilbert is a useful guide to most workplaces. Some companies work that way, but they are bad companies to work for, IME. Other companies, managers have got where they are because they know more than anybody else and have the personal skills to marshal a team into solving bigger problems than what is on the board for this sprint alone. Source: ex-CTO, now Senior Engineer again, done every level of management you can think of, choose to be where I am for a reason, but do not think managers are idiots.
  - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
    A manager that is doing the job right, is managing. Resources, people, time. Not doing Engineering. Call yourself an idiot if you like (I don't think I said that anywhere?) Managing is a difficult task that requires knowledge and skills. But not Engineering ones. There's another name for when a Manager is telling his Engineers how to solve problems: micro-managing

SmellTheGlove 9y ago

Disclosure: Am manager. Bad idea. Managers need to know a different set of finer details, not none at all. While individuals on a team have to get deep into the details of what they're doing, managers need to work at the edges - where what Team X is doing integrates with V, Y and Z; and longer term, how what all of those teams are doing now fits in with the work lined up 6-24 months down the road. That's a full time job, even before we've actually done any managing of our individuals. Maybe this gives you some insight, but that's actually why (in my opinion) the first things to fall off with poor managers are 1x1s, meaningful coaching, etc. Managers also have the stresses of accountability and expectations. There are days where I wish I was still an individual contributor.

TallGuyShort 9y ago

I had a manager like this. Didn't know the finer details of what I worked on, had the experience to empathize, but was primarily a resource manager / ran interference for distractions. I liked him at the time, but once I had a new manager I was blown away at everything I was missing from a more fully-qualified manager. Now that I recognize that kind of manager - I see a lot of them. OP probably could make it as a manager - and I say that from having seen so many of these managers move up the chain. But I think other commenters are right: managers shouldn't believe they don't need to comprehend details.

chrismealy 9y ago

Maybe your health problems would prevent you from being the best manager but there's no shame in being a good enough manager.