5 ms·

I like the idea of tougher phones, but to me it misses the mark to talk about the titanium phone case surviving corner drop tests, it's the glass that's the pro

I like the idea of tougher phones, but to me it misses the mark to talk about the titanium phone case surviving corner drop tests, it's the glass that's the problem. The number of people I've seen wandering around with cracked phone screens from drops is quite high, and is the reason I put a case which covers the front on every phone I buy. So having no phone case here just means you get the usual after market screen protectors and risk of cracked glass that most other phones suffer from.

raverbashing 9y ago
Correct Apart from major damage I care much less about damage to the shell than I care about damage to the glass But their drop test conveniently misses that Drop it face down and we'll talk
jjoonathan 9y ago
My intuition says that it's very difficult to get a phone to impact glass-first and that 99% of all drops are going to see it dance on the corners, if only for an invisible fraction of a second, before flopping/sliding down on the glass. My intuition also says that those corner impacts are going to be a much greater threat to the hardened glass than the final face-first flop/slide. The universe doesn't necessarily obey my intuition, of course, but since it differs quite dramatically from yours I thought I'd mention that there's an alternative model of the problem which supports the actions Essential Products is taking.
- pricechild 9y ago
  I think the point was that even when the phone is dropped on a corner, the glass cracks? Toughening the corners doesn't seem to help that.
  - jjoonathan 9y ago
    The glass cracks from a corner drop because the aluminum flexes and/or deforms much more than the glass, effectively focusing the force onto a small part of the glass's edge, which is the weakest part due to the hardening. Increasing stiffness and decreasing deformation spreads the force out across the edge, multiplying the effective strength. There's a reason why cracks almost always seem to start at the edges. In the most severe cases of direct impact of the face on a sharp/hard protrusion, you get a radial crack pattern, but by my estimation those are a tiny minority.
- raesene6 9y ago
  Not sure we're differing that much. My point was that the titanium shell they're providing doesn't (to me) remove the need for a case as they're saying it does. Any drop which damages the glass of a phone is a problem. A phone with a cracked screen is at the very least damaged and potentially entirely unusuable. My point was that they're addressing something which isn't the weak point in the system. Aluminium might scuff, but that's generally just a cosmetic issue. If a phone manufacturer wants a phone which doesn't require a case, they need to address the glass problem.
  - jjoonathan 9y ago
    My point was that by addressing the corner problem they are addressing the glass problem because glass breaks primarily due to poorly diffused corner impacts, not face impacts.
    - raesene6 9y ago
      Ahh I see, interesting theory, but I guess I'd want to see some drop tests of the full phone before I was convinced to have a phone with no case.
skywhopper 9y ago
I thought the same thing, and you'll notice they don't show the glass side of the phone in the drop test video or in the "after" photo. Given the edge-to-edge design I would be very worried about that.
BatFastard 9y ago
It uses Gorilla glass 5 which is the more resilient commercial glass ever made for a phone. And the titanium case gives it significant rigidity. So this should be one tough bastard!
- raesene6 9y ago
  It'd be good to see that, but to me I'd want to see drop tests on the full phone to have some comfort that I wouldn't need a case...
nerdponx 9y ago
For what it's worth, my Rhino Shield "crash guard" case [0] has saved several iPhones from multiple waist-high drops onto concrete. Shock transfer into the screen simply does not seem to be an issue. It doesn't cover the front, it just extends a few mm in front of the screen to prevent "flat front" impact. It's still susceptible to smashing the screen on a corner, but how often does someone really drop their phone screen-first on the corner of a stair? 0: https://rhinoshield.io/ https://rhinoshield.io/
- fauigerzigerk 9y ago
  >[...] my Rhino Shield "crash guard" case [0] has saved several iPhones [...] How do you know that?
  - nerdponx 9y ago
    Because I have owned several, and none of them have broken despite several impacts on hard ground. Meanwhile the iPhones of my friends and family have not been so lucky in other cases (that aren't massive Otterbox cases). Small sample size, but relatively controlled experiment.
    - k-mcgrady 9y ago
      I think a lot of luck is involved. I have regularly dropped iPhone's from chest height to concrete and the only time I had any screen damage was when there happened to be a tiny stone where the phone landed. Not that cases can't make a difference but iPhones are pretty durable nowadays.
- therealdrag0 9y ago
  I had a Otterbox but hated its bulk, so I stopped using it after a year. Then I cracked two screens in a year from waist-drops. For the last year I got one of those minimal silicone cases [0] and it has surrived a few more similar drops without cracking. Might be luck, but just that tiny bit of padding seems to be enough. [0] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HFNP0OQ/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HFNP0OQ/
dmichulke 9y ago
> The number of people I've seen wandering around with cracked phone screens Fwiw, this is called "the spider app" among the younger. Breaking your screen is called "installing" (the spider app)
bobsam 9y ago
Most of the time I see a cracked display it is on an iPhone. Is there a reason Android phones don't shatter as easily? Is it the elasticity of the plastic frame that causes this?
- cmiles74 9y ago
  I've had a couple Android phones that had pretty bad cracks on the display. My partner always purchases iPhones and they seem about the same, in terms of damage when there's no case. Having handled both, the phones do seem roughly similar in terms of flex and hardness (Apple, Samsung, Motorola). My data is entirely anecdotal, but they seem about the same to me.
Animats 9y ago
I like the idea of tougher phones, but to me it misses the mark to talk about the titanium phone case surviving corner drop tests, it's the glass that's the problem. There are good rugged phones that don't need a case. Caterpillar (yes, the bulldozer maker) has a phone brand.[1] Kyocera and Samsung make rugged phones, as do some smaller players. Also, the web site for this new phone doesn't mention MIL-STD-810G testing, which is the usual standard for rugged portable devices. (For that, it's OK if the case gets scuffed, but the thing has to work after the drop testing. The parent article seems more concerned with the appearance than the functionality.) [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVPku-xItv8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVPku-xItv8

raverbashing 9y ago

Correct Apart from major damage I care much less about damage to the shell than I care about damage to the glass But their drop test conveniently misses that Drop it face down and we'll talk

jjoonathan 9y ago

My intuition says that it's very difficult to get a phone to impact glass-first and that 99% of all drops are going to see it dance on the corners, if only for an invisible fraction of a second, before flopping/sliding down on the glass. My intuition also says that those corner impacts are going to be a much greater threat to the hardened glass than the final face-first flop/slide. The universe doesn't necessarily obey my intuition, of course, but since it differs quite dramatically from yours I thought I'd mention that there's an alternative model of the problem which supports the actions Essential Products is taking.

pricechild 9y ago
I think the point was that even when the phone is dropped on a corner, the glass cracks? Toughening the corners doesn't seem to help that.
- jjoonathan 9y ago
  The glass cracks from a corner drop because the aluminum flexes and/or deforms much more than the glass, effectively focusing the force onto a small part of the glass's edge, which is the weakest part due to the hardening. Increasing stiffness and decreasing deformation spreads the force out across the edge, multiplying the effective strength. There's a reason why cracks almost always seem to start at the edges. In the most severe cases of direct impact of the face on a sharp/hard protrusion, you get a radial crack pattern, but by my estimation those are a tiny minority.
raesene6 9y ago
Not sure we're differing that much. My point was that the titanium shell they're providing doesn't (to me) remove the need for a case as they're saying it does. Any drop which damages the glass of a phone is a problem. A phone with a cracked screen is at the very least damaged and potentially entirely unusuable. My point was that they're addressing something which isn't the weak point in the system. Aluminium might scuff, but that's generally just a cosmetic issue. If a phone manufacturer wants a phone which doesn't require a case, they need to address the glass problem.
- jjoonathan 9y ago
  My point was that by addressing the corner problem they are addressing the glass problem because glass breaks primarily due to poorly diffused corner impacts, not face impacts.
  - raesene6 9y ago
    Ahh I see, interesting theory, but I guess I'd want to see some drop tests of the full phone before I was convinced to have a phone with no case.

skywhopper 9y ago

I thought the same thing, and you'll notice they don't show the glass side of the phone in the drop test video or in the "after" photo. Given the edge-to-edge design I would be very worried about that.

BatFastard 9y ago

It uses Gorilla glass 5 which is the more resilient commercial glass ever made for a phone. And the titanium case gives it significant rigidity. So this should be one tough bastard!

raesene6 9y ago
It'd be good to see that, but to me I'd want to see drop tests on the full phone to have some comfort that I wouldn't need a case...

nerdponx 9y ago

For what it's worth, my Rhino Shield "crash guard" case [0] has saved several iPhones from multiple waist-high drops onto concrete. Shock transfer into the screen simply does not seem to be an issue. It doesn't cover the front, it just extends a few mm in front of the screen to prevent "flat front" impact. It's still susceptible to smashing the screen on a corner, but how often does someone really drop their phone screen-first on the corner of a stair? 0: https://rhinoshield.io/ https://rhinoshield.io/

fauigerzigerk 9y ago
>[...] my Rhino Shield "crash guard" case [0] has saved several iPhones [...] How do you know that?
- nerdponx 9y ago
  Because I have owned several, and none of them have broken despite several impacts on hard ground. Meanwhile the iPhones of my friends and family have not been so lucky in other cases (that aren't massive Otterbox cases). Small sample size, but relatively controlled experiment.
  - k-mcgrady 9y ago
    I think a lot of luck is involved. I have regularly dropped iPhone's from chest height to concrete and the only time I had any screen damage was when there happened to be a tiny stone where the phone landed. Not that cases can't make a difference but iPhones are pretty durable nowadays.
therealdrag0 9y ago
I had a Otterbox but hated its bulk, so I stopped using it after a year. Then I cracked two screens in a year from waist-drops. For the last year I got one of those minimal silicone cases [0] and it has surrived a few more similar drops without cracking. Might be luck, but just that tiny bit of padding seems to be enough. [0] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HFNP0OQ/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HFNP0OQ/

dmichulke 9y ago

> The number of people I've seen wandering around with cracked phone screens Fwiw, this is called "the spider app" among the younger. Breaking your screen is called "installing" (the spider app)

bobsam 9y ago

Most of the time I see a cracked display it is on an iPhone. Is there a reason Android phones don't shatter as easily? Is it the elasticity of the plastic frame that causes this?

cmiles74 9y ago
I've had a couple Android phones that had pretty bad cracks on the display. My partner always purchases iPhones and they seem about the same, in terms of damage when there's no case. Having handled both, the phones do seem roughly similar in terms of flex and hardness (Apple, Samsung, Motorola). My data is entirely anecdotal, but they seem about the same to me.

Animats 9y ago

I like the idea of tougher phones, but to me it misses the mark to talk about the titanium phone case surviving corner drop tests, it's the glass that's the problem. There are good rugged phones that don't need a case. Caterpillar (yes, the bulldozer maker) has a phone brand.[1] Kyocera and Samsung make rugged phones, as do some smaller players. Also, the web site for this new phone doesn't mention MIL-STD-810G testing, which is the usual standard for rugged portable devices. (For that, it's OK if the case gets scuffed, but the thing has to work after the drop testing. The parent article seems more concerned with the appearance than the functionality.) [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVPku-xItv8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVPku-xItv8