4 ms·

I should have thought about beer money. But I was such an introverted geek. I do remember watching other people trying to figure out how to use a mouse or the

by YZF 9y ago

I should have thought about beer money. But I was such an introverted geek. I do remember watching other people trying to figure out how to use a mouse or the most basic stuff. I've already studied algorithms and data structures and had a paying programming job. Most of the CS work seemed trivial but I did learn some math. The math did get hard so the degree was definitely not a breeze. Even with CS there were areas that were less trivial like computational geometry or numerical methods but I had the advantage that coding was a non-issue so I could focus on the essence. Many many many years later, I still often make the mistake of assuming things that look trivial to me are also trivial to others. It's just so hard to tell whether something is universally trivial or just trivial because you've done it so many times. I wonder if the current generation's "playing" with their phone/computer/tablets gives them an advantage over the previous generation. I do work with quite a few sharp young people but I don't know whether they had programmed before going into CS or not, I guess I should ask...

smeroth 9y ago
I don't think they have an advantage, as I've noticed that kids knowing their way around their phone are often completely lost when put in front of a computer. They never use the computer, they have everything in their phones. Compared to a computer, a phone is simple, and you aren't actually solving any problems while using it (you're just downloading and running apps). When you have a phone, however, there's no need to learn the computer. This means that they're missing out on the computer learning curve that we experienced.
- fivestar 9y ago
  Again, Rasp Pi and the whole "maker" movement are mainstream. My daughter is in a STEM Middle School and she has done more things at age 11 than I did when I was 18! They're teaching Android game coding to kids age 10.
  - CydeWeys 9y ago
    I think your daughter is lucky to be going to an exceptional school that teaches programming at age ten. The vast, vast majority of American students do not have these kinds of courses. May I ask what school system your daughter is in?
tsukikage 9y ago
If anything, it's a disadvantage IME: the implicit lessons of the iDevice are that the world is made of non-user-serviceable black boxes that cannot be recombined to make anything substantially different than what you started with, and if one does ever manage to peek under the hood (and why would one do that, any more than they do with their fridge or their TV?) one sees only immutable non-deconstructible complexity. Contrast this with the 8-bit era: devices made of multiple clunky components large enough to manipulate and simple enough to fully comprehend, shipping with "user manuals" that look like today's programming textbooks or service/maintenance manuals (where those exist today at all), a readily available developer environment giving full access to the hardware, tinkering with hardware and software as a matter of course to get anything interesting done at all... The experience is very different indeed.
- rjbwork 9y ago
  I totally agree with this. The mass produced handheld computers such as smartphones and tablets, which outnumber desktops and laptops in personal ownership worldwide, will absolutely not help the newer generations with learning how computers work. When I was a tween I was building my own desktop, installing drivers, trouble shooting driver issues, trawling log files, and even dabbled in a little bit of python here or there when I had no idea what I was doing. None of that is even a thing on the black box of of a touch screen device.
  - sqeaky 9y ago
    I am so glad that there are enough people around to support a healthy PC components market. I build 1 or 2 per year and I haven't felt the supply dwindle yet. It is a shame that this is no longer the default option, but it can be done for people wanting to get an educational experience. I wonder how easy it would be to build a computer with a little kid?
    - Baeocystin 9y ago
      My six-year-old nephew sat with rapt amazement as I assembled a standard PC in his living room while hanging out with the family. It was a very straightforward build- just motherboard, CPU & RAM, no addon cards, hard drive was already in the case. His mind boggled a little when he saw all the wires from the power supply, but as I pointed out how each group of wired to key into only certain ports, I could see the 'aha!' in his eyes. (He also just about jumped for joy when he saw the color-changing LED fan I put on the case.) Obviously at that age he doesn't quite have the manual dexterity to do the work himself, but I let him touch the RAM as I installed it so he could feel it click in to place, and showed him how to close & latch the CPU lever. He appeared to really enjoy the experience. The next time one of the offices I work for retire some desktops, I may clean some up and partially disassemble them, so he can 'build' one himself. I really want to impress on him the fact that things that look complicated can be understood, if you just break down the task into bite-sized chunks.

by YZF 9y ago

smeroth 9y ago

I don't think they have an advantage, as I've noticed that kids knowing their way around their phone are often completely lost when put in front of a computer. They never use the computer, they have everything in their phones. Compared to a computer, a phone is simple, and you aren't actually solving any problems while using it (you're just downloading and running apps). When you have a phone, however, there's no need to learn the computer. This means that they're missing out on the computer learning curve that we experienced.

fivestar 9y ago
Again, Rasp Pi and the whole "maker" movement are mainstream. My daughter is in a STEM Middle School and she has done more things at age 11 than I did when I was 18! They're teaching Android game coding to kids age 10.
- CydeWeys 9y ago
  I think your daughter is lucky to be going to an exceptional school that teaches programming at age ten. The vast, vast majority of American students do not have these kinds of courses. May I ask what school system your daughter is in?

tsukikage 9y ago

If anything, it's a disadvantage IME: the implicit lessons of the iDevice are that the world is made of non-user-serviceable black boxes that cannot be recombined to make anything substantially different than what you started with, and if one does ever manage to peek under the hood (and why would one do that, any more than they do with their fridge or their TV?) one sees only immutable non-deconstructible complexity. Contrast this with the 8-bit era: devices made of multiple clunky components large enough to manipulate and simple enough to fully comprehend, shipping with "user manuals" that look like today's programming textbooks or service/maintenance manuals (where those exist today at all), a readily available developer environment giving full access to the hardware, tinkering with hardware and software as a matter of course to get anything interesting done at all... The experience is very different indeed.

rjbwork 9y ago
I totally agree with this. The mass produced handheld computers such as smartphones and tablets, which outnumber desktops and laptops in personal ownership worldwide, will absolutely not help the newer generations with learning how computers work. When I was a tween I was building my own desktop, installing drivers, trouble shooting driver issues, trawling log files, and even dabbled in a little bit of python here or there when I had no idea what I was doing. None of that is even a thing on the black box of of a touch screen device.
- sqeaky 9y ago
  I am so glad that there are enough people around to support a healthy PC components market. I build 1 or 2 per year and I haven't felt the supply dwindle yet. It is a shame that this is no longer the default option, but it can be done for people wanting to get an educational experience. I wonder how easy it would be to build a computer with a little kid?
  - Baeocystin 9y ago
    My six-year-old nephew sat with rapt amazement as I assembled a standard PC in his living room while hanging out with the family. It was a very straightforward build- just motherboard, CPU & RAM, no addon cards, hard drive was already in the case. His mind boggled a little when he saw all the wires from the power supply, but as I pointed out how each group of wired to key into only certain ports, I could see the 'aha!' in his eyes. (He also just about jumped for joy when he saw the color-changing LED fan I put on the case.) Obviously at that age he doesn't quite have the manual dexterity to do the work himself, but I let him touch the RAM as I installed it so he could feel it click in to place, and showed him how to close & latch the CPU lever. He appeared to really enjoy the experience. The next time one of the offices I work for retire some desktops, I may clean some up and partially disassemble them, so he can 'build' one himself. I really want to impress on him the fact that things that look complicated can be understood, if you just break down the task into bite-sized chunks.