5 ms·

Ask HN: What would it take to build the Etsy of Food?

5 points by dawhizkid 9y ago

I'm wondering if the only reason it doesn't exist yet is the big legal question around food safety/food handling.

joeclark77 9y ago
I think you first need to explain what "the Etsy of Food" is. What do you have in mind, exactly?
- awinter-py 9y ago
  It's like seamless except it's delivered through the normal mail, all containers are ceramic, all bags are knit, and everything has a cute face drawn on it in ketchup.
- dawhizkid 9y ago
  Essentially a marketplace of homemade meals that can be shipped (frozen, uncooked, otherwise shippable). Delivering Mom/Grandmas cooking at scale. Amazing to think of all the food, especially ethnic food, that I can't otherwise get at a typical restaurant but have had at a friend's parents home or relative's home. I live in an area with so many Chinese people, but can't find a decent dumpling restaurant. And frozen dumplings from Safeway don't cut it. I'm sure your average Chinese household within .5 mile radius from me makes 100x better dumplings than I could buy commercially anywhere near me. Would love to just buy a few dozen frozen dumplings from the best Chinese mom near me and give her a marketplace to do it.
  - joeclark77 9y ago
    I'm pretty sure licensing requirements would make it impossible. In my state, just selling raw vegetables at a farmer's market requires jumping through hoops of paperwork and inspections. Selling any kind of prepared food requires more. Some products are practically impossible for anyone except a large company to get permission to produce. Your Etsy of food would have to find out how to get all of its vendors trained, inspected, licensed -- a different process in each state -- and probably have to provide them with practical help in the logistics of refrigerated shipping, etc. My suggestion would be to focus on one metro area only, rather than try to create a national-scale dotcom business. Alternatively, become an activist and change agent in the political sphere, and try to get some of these barriers torn down.
RoyTyrell 9y ago
You're probably correct that the largest hurdle is food safety and legal issues. I'm not sure about every state, but I know in my state food for sale must be prepared in a legally defined "commercial kitchen" which is only allowed to be used for preparing that food not for home use (i.e. can't use your home kitchen). Frankly, if the company ran even 1% like Uber in the sense of "maybe we'll ask forgiveness" and just do what they like, people will die.
- dawhizkid 9y ago
  What are the food poisoning stats from licensed commercial kitchens? I'm curious if the rate of food poisoning from home cooked meals is really much higher.
  - stephenr 9y ago
    Home kitchens used for family meals have inherent reasons to be safe, and safety nets: They're usually cooking The food for themselves/direct family, so while accidents/mistakes can happen, they're not motivated by profits to cut corners. Secondly - the distribution potential for the food is quite small. If something is unsafe to eat, you have a small group of potential sufferers, rather than 100 or 1000 people all over the state/region
    - dawhizkid 9y ago
      sounds like this is called "cottage food" and states are evolving here. sounds like there's opportunity. http://forrager.com/laws http://forrager.com/laws Surprisingly, California has one of the most liberal laws w.r.t. cottage food industry of any state: http://forrager.com/law/california http://forrager.com/law/california Also: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180AB626 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml...
donohoe 9y ago
Yes - I would argue that is exactly the reason. That said, I don't think its unnecessary regulation either (unlike some good arguments that could be made for taxis/car-services IMHO). I would not order from a place where the quality and safety of the food was an open question. I'm more inclined to either order direct from a place, or go to Marly Spoon, Blue Apron or others.
jbms 9y ago
Regarding food safety, the UK's Food Standard's Agency has a category that specifically deals with food prepared in homes and sold to the public: https://www.food.gov.uk/business-industry/food-hygiene/movable-temp-premises https://www.food.gov.uk/business-industry/food-hygiene/movab... The requirements are not insurmountable. Please someone do this! There's loads of (mainly) women on Pinterest who explain how they bulk prepare a month worth of food for their families in a day or two, and freeze it/jar/store it. I'd love some near me to prepare more and I could just buy up some of it and throw it in a slow cooker or oven.
tmaly 9y ago
I was at a recent NY Tech meetup where there were some student teams from a hackathon. One of them called Chefy was doing this same exact concept. I think I have their contact details at home if you are interested in this space.
twobyfour 9y ago
In addition to the food safety questions, you have issues around shipping perishables. The extra shipping costs alone would probably be prohibitive and make your target market extremely narrow. That or you'd be restricted to basically selling stuff like hard candy.
- dawhizkid 9y ago
  There's 2 potential approaches. First is local pickup and delivery (cheaper, perishability less an issue) and/or limit foods to be either frozen, not cooked, or non-perishable. Other is more expensive i.e. cross-country 1-day shipping of frozen, dry-ice packed, or non-perishibles. There's definitely a market for this i.e. https://www.goldbely.com/ https://www.goldbely.com/ but definitely a narrower market (i.e. $80 for 2 Joe's pizza pies from NYC).

5 points by dawhizkid 9y ago

I'm wondering if the only reason it doesn't exist yet is the big legal question around food safety/food handling.

joeclark77 9y ago

I think you first need to explain what "the Etsy of Food" is. What do you have in mind, exactly?

awinter-py 9y ago
It's like seamless except it's delivered through the normal mail, all containers are ceramic, all bags are knit, and everything has a cute face drawn on it in ketchup.
dawhizkid 9y ago
Essentially a marketplace of homemade meals that can be shipped (frozen, uncooked, otherwise shippable). Delivering Mom/Grandmas cooking at scale. Amazing to think of all the food, especially ethnic food, that I can't otherwise get at a typical restaurant but have had at a friend's parents home or relative's home. I live in an area with so many Chinese people, but can't find a decent dumpling restaurant. And frozen dumplings from Safeway don't cut it. I'm sure your average Chinese household within .5 mile radius from me makes 100x better dumplings than I could buy commercially anywhere near me. Would love to just buy a few dozen frozen dumplings from the best Chinese mom near me and give her a marketplace to do it.
- joeclark77 9y ago
  I'm pretty sure licensing requirements would make it impossible. In my state, just selling raw vegetables at a farmer's market requires jumping through hoops of paperwork and inspections. Selling any kind of prepared food requires more. Some products are practically impossible for anyone except a large company to get permission to produce. Your Etsy of food would have to find out how to get all of its vendors trained, inspected, licensed -- a different process in each state -- and probably have to provide them with practical help in the logistics of refrigerated shipping, etc. My suggestion would be to focus on one metro area only, rather than try to create a national-scale dotcom business. Alternatively, become an activist and change agent in the political sphere, and try to get some of these barriers torn down.

RoyTyrell 9y ago

You're probably correct that the largest hurdle is food safety and legal issues. I'm not sure about every state, but I know in my state food for sale must be prepared in a legally defined "commercial kitchen" which is only allowed to be used for preparing that food not for home use (i.e. can't use your home kitchen). Frankly, if the company ran even 1% like Uber in the sense of "maybe we'll ask forgiveness" and just do what they like, people will die.

dawhizkid 9y ago
What are the food poisoning stats from licensed commercial kitchens? I'm curious if the rate of food poisoning from home cooked meals is really much higher.
- stephenr 9y ago
  Home kitchens used for family meals have inherent reasons to be safe, and safety nets: They're usually cooking The food for themselves/direct family, so while accidents/mistakes can happen, they're not motivated by profits to cut corners. Secondly - the distribution potential for the food is quite small. If something is unsafe to eat, you have a small group of potential sufferers, rather than 100 or 1000 people all over the state/region
  - dawhizkid 9y ago
    sounds like this is called "cottage food" and states are evolving here. sounds like there's opportunity. http://forrager.com/laws http://forrager.com/laws Surprisingly, California has one of the most liberal laws w.r.t. cottage food industry of any state: http://forrager.com/law/california http://forrager.com/law/california Also: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180AB626 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml...

donohoe 9y ago

Yes - I would argue that is exactly the reason. That said, I don't think its unnecessary regulation either (unlike some good arguments that could be made for taxis/car-services IMHO). I would not order from a place where the quality and safety of the food was an open question. I'm more inclined to either order direct from a place, or go to Marly Spoon, Blue Apron or others.

jbms 9y ago

Regarding food safety, the UK's Food Standard's Agency has a category that specifically deals with food prepared in homes and sold to the public: https://www.food.gov.uk/business-industry/food-hygiene/movable-temp-premises https://www.food.gov.uk/business-industry/food-hygiene/movab... The requirements are not insurmountable. Please someone do this! There's loads of (mainly) women on Pinterest who explain how they bulk prepare a month worth of food for their families in a day or two, and freeze it/jar/store it. I'd love some near me to prepare more and I could just buy up some of it and throw it in a slow cooker or oven.

tmaly 9y ago

I was at a recent NY Tech meetup where there were some student teams from a hackathon. One of them called Chefy was doing this same exact concept. I think I have their contact details at home if you are interested in this space.

twobyfour 9y ago

In addition to the food safety questions, you have issues around shipping perishables. The extra shipping costs alone would probably be prohibitive and make your target market extremely narrow. That or you'd be restricted to basically selling stuff like hard candy.

dawhizkid 9y ago
There's 2 potential approaches. First is local pickup and delivery (cheaper, perishability less an issue) and/or limit foods to be either frozen, not cooked, or non-perishable. Other is more expensive i.e. cross-country 1-day shipping of frozen, dry-ice packed, or non-perishibles. There's definitely a market for this i.e. https://www.goldbely.com/ https://www.goldbely.com/ but definitely a narrower market (i.e. $80 for 2 Joe's pizza pies from NYC).