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It isn't the University's job to teach people how to code. University isn't a vocational school. Yes, one should know how to code when they graduate. But the sc

It isn't the University's job to teach people how to code. University isn't a vocational school. Yes, one should know how to code when they graduate. But the school is usually trying to teach the theory not the coding

apetresc 9y ago
Let's keep it real, the cheaters aren't opting out of learning to code because they want to dedicate all that extra time to mastering the theory instead.
- Nition 9y ago
  The real problem is, the idealised goal of a university should be "learn something", but it's actually "get a degree".
  - majewsky 9y ago
    Another case of "Once you turn a metric into a goal, it ceases being a good metric".
    - FabHK 9y ago
      Goodhart's Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law
benchaney 9y ago
It depends on the class, but often times it is the university's job to teach people how to code. For example, if you make it through an algorithms class without knowing how to actually implement the algorithms, that is probably ok, as long as you have a strong enough theoretical understanding of them. If you make it through a systems programming class without learning how to do any systems programming, then that is a problem.
closeparen 9y ago
What? Almost the entire meat of my CS program was programming projects in a variety of foundational domains (operating systems, networking, concurrency, databases, graphics, compilers, cryptography, machine learning, visualization, etc). Theory (discrete math, algorithms, formal languages) was 3 courses out of an 18-course program. HN keeps talking like it's the only thing you do in a CS major, which is bizarre.
- bottled_poe 9y ago
  Where I studied, our lecturers expected us to learn the fundamentals of whichever programming language on our own time. The vast majority of our courses were focused on theory of CS/physics/maths/engineering/etc. That might explain why our class size dropped from around 100 in first year to around 15 by 4th year.
- danielbarla 9y ago
  I suspect there's a fair bit of variance between CS courses, and even how we remember it. In my case, the topics were similar to the list you give (although there were a significant number of optional classes which I filled with math, skewing it a lot), but the subjects were definitely more theory-focused than practical. Sure, there were practical classes for each subject, weekly projects, semester projects and so on, but they were secondary to the theory in both quantity and difficulty. As an example, you might deep dive into a number of networking protocols, but in the same period only implement a toy TCP/IP during a prac.
  - closeparen 9y ago
    Interesting, I guess mine skewed the opposite way: the theory served the projects, and the vast majority of what you needed to know for theory-based exams, you'd pick up by doing the projects. Some lecture slide and textbook review necessary, but not a lot. Always surprised to hear about this variance, given the general consensus that there aren't differences in quality between schools.
- b0rsuk 9y ago
  We had 5 kinds of maths; algorithms and data structures, databases, computer architecture (with assembly), English lessons, history of mathematics, operating systems, networking, and 2 programming courses: C and Java. There was very little learning by doing.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
raverbashing 9y ago
"It is not the medical university's job to teach people to practice medicine. It's not a vocational school. The school is usually trying to teach the theory, not the practice" See how it doesn't make sense?
- Blackthorn 9y ago
  No, because a medical school is literally called a professional school.
lostboys67 9y ago
I don't know why you are marked down for this
lol768 9y ago
I'd disagree on this. Is it important for the university to cover the theory (algorithms, compiler design/automata/languages/parsing, logic, discrete mathematics etc)? Absolutely. Does that mean there isn't space for a module on software engineering theory (design patterns, development methodologies, OOP principles, testing, version control...)? I really don't see why that has to be the case. Some of the worst code I've seen has been written by academics - undocumented, undescriptive nonstandard single letter variable names everywhere, huge monolithic functions named "compute" that span hundreds of lines and several levels of indentation.

apetresc 9y ago

Let's keep it real, the cheaters aren't opting out of learning to code because they want to dedicate all that extra time to mastering the theory instead.

Nition 9y ago
The real problem is, the idealised goal of a university should be "learn something", but it's actually "get a degree".
- majewsky 9y ago
  Another case of "Once you turn a metric into a goal, it ceases being a good metric".
  - FabHK 9y ago
    Goodhart's Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law

benchaney 9y ago

It depends on the class, but often times it is the university's job to teach people how to code. For example, if you make it through an algorithms class without knowing how to actually implement the algorithms, that is probably ok, as long as you have a strong enough theoretical understanding of them. If you make it through a systems programming class without learning how to do any systems programming, then that is a problem.

closeparen 9y ago

What? Almost the entire meat of my CS program was programming projects in a variety of foundational domains (operating systems, networking, concurrency, databases, graphics, compilers, cryptography, machine learning, visualization, etc). Theory (discrete math, algorithms, formal languages) was 3 courses out of an 18-course program. HN keeps talking like it's the only thing you do in a CS major, which is bizarre.

bottled_poe 9y ago
Where I studied, our lecturers expected us to learn the fundamentals of whichever programming language on our own time. The vast majority of our courses were focused on theory of CS/physics/maths/engineering/etc. That might explain why our class size dropped from around 100 in first year to around 15 by 4th year.
danielbarla 9y ago
I suspect there's a fair bit of variance between CS courses, and even how we remember it. In my case, the topics were similar to the list you give (although there were a significant number of optional classes which I filled with math, skewing it a lot), but the subjects were definitely more theory-focused than practical. Sure, there were practical classes for each subject, weekly projects, semester projects and so on, but they were secondary to the theory in both quantity and difficulty. As an example, you might deep dive into a number of networking protocols, but in the same period only implement a toy TCP/IP during a prac.
- closeparen 9y ago
  Interesting, I guess mine skewed the opposite way: the theory served the projects, and the vast majority of what you needed to know for theory-based exams, you'd pick up by doing the projects. Some lecture slide and textbook review necessary, but not a lot. Always surprised to hear about this variance, given the general consensus that there aren't differences in quality between schools.
b0rsuk 9y ago
We had 5 kinds of maths; algorithms and data structures, databases, computer architecture (with assembly), English lessons, history of mathematics, operating systems, networking, and 2 programming courses: C and Java. There was very little learning by doing.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

raverbashing 9y ago

"It is not the medical university's job to teach people to practice medicine. It's not a vocational school. The school is usually trying to teach the theory, not the practice" See how it doesn't make sense?

Blackthorn 9y ago
No, because a medical school is literally called a professional school.

lostboys67 9y ago

I don't know why you are marked down for this

lol768 9y ago

I'd disagree on this. Is it important for the university to cover the theory (algorithms, compiler design/automata/languages/parsing, logic, discrete mathematics etc)? Absolutely. Does that mean there isn't space for a module on software engineering theory (design patterns, development methodologies, OOP principles, testing, version control...)? I really don't see why that has to be the case. Some of the worst code I've seen has been written by academics - undocumented, undescriptive nonstandard single letter variable names everywhere, huge monolithic functions named "compute" that span hundreds of lines and several levels of indentation.