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> FarmVille isn't intended to provide entertainment Kindly, justify this statement.

philwelch 16y ago
There are certain design tradeoffs between entertainment and addictiveness, but I don't think a game which encourages players to get up at 4 in the morning to click on isometric squares to harvest virtual crops chose the "entertainment" side of that tradeoff. In fact, I don't think any game where the central mechanic involves clicking on isometric squares repeatedly to plant and harvest virtual crops is entertaining. You may claim they intended Farmville to be entertaining, but they're not that incompetent--they certainly made it addictive.
- WalterGR 16y ago
  > In fact, I don't think any game where the central mechanic involves clicking on isometric squares repeatedly to plant and harvest virtual crops is entertaining. I'm still unclear on your argument. Are you saying that any activity that people engage in, that you don't find entertaining, was invented solely to be addictive?
  - philwelch 16y ago
    No universal quantifiers--I'm just saying that Farmville, in particular, was designed to be addictive at the cost of being entertaining. If you have a counterpoint, kindly make it--this isn't quite the right forum for a Socratic argument.
    - WalterGR 16y ago
      Okay, here goes: FarmVille isn't intended to provide entertainment, it's only intended to addict you (to Zynga's benefit). That's an absolutely ridiculous statement, and I'm shocked that it has gotten so many upvotes on Hacker News. Slashdot, sure, but not here. Do you have any insight into Zynga's development of the game? If not you have no grounds upon which to make that hyperbolic statement. ...Unless you're arguing that anything you don't find entertaining was therefore designed solely to be addictive. Farmville, in particular, was designed to be addictive at the cost of being entertaining. Are you saying that its entertainment value is lessened by its addictive aspect, or that it's not entertaining at all? If the former, your original statement needs modification.
      - philwelch 16y ago
        "Do you have any insight into Zynga's development of the game? If not you have no grounds upon which to make that hyperbolic statement....Unless you're arguing that anything you don't find entertaining was therefore designed solely to be addictive." That's a false dichotomy. Please stop throwing around universal quantifiers like that, it's quite reckless. "Are you saying that its entertainment value is lessened by its addictive aspect, or that it's not entertaining at all? If the former, your original statement needs modification." I think it's pretty clear what I'm saying. I also think you're engaging in message board gamesmanship here, which is tiresome and boring for others to read. If you want to keep this one-on-one going, my email address is in my profile.
      - potatolicious 16y ago
        Just about everyone I know - including people who play FarmVille - agree that it's really not very fun, but the app (I hesitate to call it a "game") compels them forward with a number of addictive mechanics. No offense, but it really sounds like you have a horse in this race - do you work for Zynga?
        WalterGR 16y ago
        Just about everyone I know - including people who play FarmVille - agree that it's really not very fun, but the app (I hesitate to call it a "game") compels them forward with a number of addictive mechanics. Few people I know classify watching TV as "fun," but it passes the time and is entertaining. No offense, but it really sounds like you have a horse in this race - do you work for Zynga? None taken. I absolutely have no relationship whatsoever with Zynga. Consider the argument Television isn't intended to provide entertainment, it's only intended to addict you (to the networks' benefit). I can't imagine it would be so uncritically received by Hacker News. Clearly FarmVille has addictive elements, like any game. I'm shocked that Hacker News so enthusiastically accepts that "FarmVille isn't intended to provide entertainment", and is punishing me for saying so.
        chc 16y ago
        A similar statement about TV (or most other games for that matter) wouldn't match our experience. Most of us have been entertained or know someone who has been entertained by TV. FarmVille does not share this quality. Most of us know at least one person who has played it, but no one who actually seems to be entertained. My girlfriend used to play it a lot, but she spoke of it in terms of fulfilling a need or obligation rather than deriving enjoyment. I suspect a lot of people have similar experiences, and that is why they find your comparison to TV to be specious.
simonw 16y ago
Crop wilting.

There are certain design tradeoffs between entertainment and addictiveness, but I don't think a game which encourages players to get up at 4 in the morning to click on isometric squares to harvest virtual crops chose the "entertainment" side of that tradeoff. In fact, I don't think any game where the central mechanic involves clicking on isometric squares repeatedly to plant and harvest virtual crops is entertaining. You may claim they intended Farmville to be entertaining, but they're not that incompetent--they certainly made it addictive.

WalterGR 16y ago
> In fact, I don't think any game where the central mechanic involves clicking on isometric squares repeatedly to plant and harvest virtual crops is entertaining. I'm still unclear on your argument. Are you saying that any activity that people engage in, that you don't find entertaining, was invented solely to be addictive?
- philwelch 16y ago
  No universal quantifiers--I'm just saying that Farmville, in particular, was designed to be addictive at the cost of being entertaining. If you have a counterpoint, kindly make it--this isn't quite the right forum for a Socratic argument.
  - WalterGR 16y ago
    Okay, here goes: FarmVille isn't intended to provide entertainment, it's only intended to addict you (to Zynga's benefit). That's an absolutely ridiculous statement, and I'm shocked that it has gotten so many upvotes on Hacker News. Slashdot, sure, but not here. Do you have any insight into Zynga's development of the game? If not you have no grounds upon which to make that hyperbolic statement. ...Unless you're arguing that anything you don't find entertaining was therefore designed solely to be addictive. Farmville, in particular, was designed to be addictive at the cost of being entertaining. Are you saying that its entertainment value is lessened by its addictive aspect, or that it's not entertaining at all? If the former, your original statement needs modification.
    - philwelch 16y ago
      "Do you have any insight into Zynga's development of the game? If not you have no grounds upon which to make that hyperbolic statement....Unless you're arguing that anything you don't find entertaining was therefore designed solely to be addictive." That's a false dichotomy. Please stop throwing around universal quantifiers like that, it's quite reckless. "Are you saying that its entertainment value is lessened by its addictive aspect, or that it's not entertaining at all? If the former, your original statement needs modification." I think it's pretty clear what I'm saying. I also think you're engaging in message board gamesmanship here, which is tiresome and boring for others to read. If you want to keep this one-on-one going, my email address is in my profile.
    - potatolicious 16y ago
      Just about everyone I know - including people who play FarmVille - agree that it's really not very fun, but the app (I hesitate to call it a "game") compels them forward with a number of addictive mechanics. No offense, but it really sounds like you have a horse in this race - do you work for Zynga?
      - WalterGR 16y ago
        Just about everyone I know - including people who play FarmVille - agree that it's really not very fun, but the app (I hesitate to call it a "game") compels them forward with a number of addictive mechanics. Few people I know classify watching TV as "fun," but it passes the time and is entertaining. No offense, but it really sounds like you have a horse in this race - do you work for Zynga? None taken. I absolutely have no relationship whatsoever with Zynga. Consider the argument Television isn't intended to provide entertainment, it's only intended to addict you (to the networks' benefit). I can't imagine it would be so uncritically received by Hacker News. Clearly FarmVille has addictive elements, like any game. I'm shocked that Hacker News so enthusiastically accepts that "FarmVille isn't intended to provide entertainment", and is punishing me for saying so.
        chc 16y ago
        A similar statement about TV (or most other games for that matter) wouldn't match our experience. Most of us have been entertained or know someone who has been entertained by TV. FarmVille does not share this quality. Most of us know at least one person who has played it, but no one who actually seems to be entertained. My girlfriend used to play it a lot, but she spoke of it in terms of fulfilling a need or obligation rather than deriving enjoyment. I suspect a lot of people have similar experiences, and that is why they find your comparison to TV to be specious.

simonw 16y ago

Crop wilting.