4 ms·

... had this been written in a language less esoteric than Haskell, it would've been even better for the rest of us :)

codnee 9y ago
Almost exactly my thought every time I see something written in JS.
aviaviavi 9y ago
I suggest you take a look at https://github.com/lhartikk/naivechain https://github.com/lhartikk/naivechain, the original version of this work, written in JS
- flavio81 9y ago
  I second the recommendation for Naivechain. It is really easy to understand. For me, reading the Javascript code of Naivechain made me understand Blockchains in an easier-to-understand way than all the tutorials that try to explain how to implement a blockchain!!
solidsnack9000 9y ago
I think it's too bad we don't have module interoperability. There's never going to be just one programming language. The situation on the JVM -- where Scala, Java and Kotlin can use one another's modules -- is a positive example. Clang modules and Swift's auto-magic import of them is another.
- aabaker99 9y ago
  I'm pretty uninformed about libffi but can it help with kind of module interoperability? I've used it to get Ruby to call C functions. I would guess that it could be used for other dynamic languages to call compiled functions such as JS to Haskell like the OP seems to be desiring. Is this true?
  - Nullabillity 9y ago
    Most languages have some degree of interoperability with C, but that means losing all of the nice features of whatever languages you're using, even if they're implemented on both ends.
  - kcorbitt 9y ago
    The hardest part of combining two languages through a foreign function interface (eg Ruby/C using libffi) is making their garbage collectors work together. You basically have to either use a single garbage collector across the language boundary, like the family of languages implemented on the JVM do, or require one or both of the languages to implement GC-less memory management, like in the Ruby/C case.
  - solidsnack9000 9y ago
    I think the problem is more around signatures, actually. If we can find the code, we know how to call it (libffi makes that easy) but how do we expose the library interface? Clang modules takes some steps towards that for native code. On the JVM, everything is a Java class in the end, with Java type signatures for its methods (which can point to other Java classes, and so on) so rich cross language interfaces are a solved problem. Other posters have raised concerns about garbage collection or "losing all of the nice features of whatever languages you're using" but I have some doubts: * Interface definition languages like Protobuf or Cap'N'Proto actually show us just how much commonality there is across languages. They provide for many features that are fancy relative to C but not really relative to anything else; and the interfaces are definitely useful. * Many languages with sophisticated type systems work by compiling object code and then appending an interface file to capture the type information. Haskell, Rust, OCaml and many others do this, essentially treating every module as foreign code with additional type information. A good cross language module system would need those features that make sense across languages -- parameterized array and map types among them -- and this does mean, not every piece of Python (for example) would make sense as a Rust library. Consider the interface of the linked project, though -- only `mineBlockFrom` needs to be rethought to be typable in a way that makes sense across many languages.
KirinDave 9y ago
Well uh, value judgements aside my reading of those code is that it is short, straightforward in its choices and generally quite good. I'm not sure what there is to be mad about. This seems pretty approachable.
runeks 9y ago
Haskell is only esoteric if you understand programming to be mutating variable contents. Once you let go of this odd way of defining program logic, Haskell is actually a much simpler way to program, since you're writing your logic directly, instead of emulating it using mutation of state.

Almost exactly my thought every time I see something written in JS.

I suggest you take a look at https://github.com/lhartikk/naivechain https://github.com/lhartikk/naivechain, the original version of this work, written in JS

flavio81 9y ago
I second the recommendation for Naivechain. It is really easy to understand. For me, reading the Javascript code of Naivechain made me understand Blockchains in an easier-to-understand way than all the tutorials that try to explain how to implement a blockchain!!

solidsnack9000 9y ago

I think it's too bad we don't have module interoperability. There's never going to be just one programming language. The situation on the JVM -- where Scala, Java and Kotlin can use one another's modules -- is a positive example. Clang modules and Swift's auto-magic import of them is another.

aabaker99 9y ago
I'm pretty uninformed about libffi but can it help with kind of module interoperability? I've used it to get Ruby to call C functions. I would guess that it could be used for other dynamic languages to call compiled functions such as JS to Haskell like the OP seems to be desiring. Is this true?
- Nullabillity 9y ago
  Most languages have some degree of interoperability with C, but that means losing all of the nice features of whatever languages you're using, even if they're implemented on both ends.
- kcorbitt 9y ago
  The hardest part of combining two languages through a foreign function interface (eg Ruby/C using libffi) is making their garbage collectors work together. You basically have to either use a single garbage collector across the language boundary, like the family of languages implemented on the JVM do, or require one or both of the languages to implement GC-less memory management, like in the Ruby/C case.
- solidsnack9000 9y ago
  I think the problem is more around signatures, actually. If we can find the code, we know how to call it (libffi makes that easy) but how do we expose the library interface? Clang modules takes some steps towards that for native code. On the JVM, everything is a Java class in the end, with Java type signatures for its methods (which can point to other Java classes, and so on) so rich cross language interfaces are a solved problem. Other posters have raised concerns about garbage collection or "losing all of the nice features of whatever languages you're using" but I have some doubts: * Interface definition languages like Protobuf or Cap'N'Proto actually show us just how much commonality there is across languages. They provide for many features that are fancy relative to C but not really relative to anything else; and the interfaces are definitely useful. * Many languages with sophisticated type systems work by compiling object code and then appending an interface file to capture the type information. Haskell, Rust, OCaml and many others do this, essentially treating every module as foreign code with additional type information. A good cross language module system would need those features that make sense across languages -- parameterized array and map types among them -- and this does mean, not every piece of Python (for example) would make sense as a Rust library. Consider the interface of the linked project, though -- only `mineBlockFrom` needs to be rethought to be typable in a way that makes sense across many languages.

KirinDave 9y ago

Well uh, value judgements aside my reading of those code is that it is short, straightforward in its choices and generally quite good. I'm not sure what there is to be mad about. This seems pretty approachable.

runeks 9y ago

Haskell is only esoteric if you understand programming to be mutating variable contents. Once you let go of this odd way of defining program logic, Haskell is actually a much simpler way to program, since you're writing your logic directly, instead of emulating it using mutation of state.