5 ms·

Thousands of developers in developing countries beg to disagree.

JohnnyConatus 9y ago
Eh. I hire developers overseas on the regular. Senior devs, or people who can pass for one, are making ~$30/USD/hour regardless of location if they have conversational level english skills. Yes, having skills I want as an employer is important. There's no free lunch. Let's assume their fill rate is only 50% of their total time. That's still ~$32k USD / year. This is great money even in a developed country like Russia where the median income is ~$5k/USD/year.
- ryanwaggoner 9y ago
  Just because you're hiring allegedly [1] senior devs for $30/hr doesn't mean they couldn't charge a lot more, or that you just aren't exposed to the ones charging $150 because they avoid lowballers. 1. Yes, I'm skeptical, having worked with (or worse, after) a lot of overseas devs who charge in that range, or more. None were truly "senior".
- Const-me 9y ago
  Agree about conversational English. Disagree about the rate. Depends on specialization, reputation, portfolio, experience, negotiation skills, and many other things.
nathan_f77 9y ago
If anyone has specialized skills, great English, and a great reputation, I think they should be able to earn $100+ per hour as a software developer. It shouldn't matter where they are from, where they are currently living, or what their name sounds like. Unfortunately, there are still racial, cultural, and gender barriers. The sad truth is that someone from Russia, India, or Thailand would find it a lot easier to get high-paying work if they pretended to be a "digital nomad", and used a fake name and a fake profile picture. They would be doing the exactly the same work under a pseudonym. I don't reduce my rates while living in countries like Thailand. I don't see why someone who is born in Thailand should charge so much less, if they can do the same work.
- dbancajas 9y ago
  so you earn 800$/day? Or is this freelance kind of thing where you only get to charge 3 hrs/day? Still 100/hr for remote work is a lot of money.
  - nathan_f77 9y ago
    People will often charge a daily or weekly rate, and may offer a lower rate if the project will take a long time. But $100 per hour is nothing crazy, and I think it's actually on the low end for a good software developer. It's not uncommon for a remote software developer to charge between $100 and $200 per hour, depending on their experience. If you have some very specialized knowledge and a strong reputation, you might have a weekly rate of $10,000. (But these are typically very short term engagements.) patio11 has a lot of good posts that talk about consulting rates: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2015/05/01/talking-about-money/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2015/05/01/talking-about-money/
  - jasonkester 9y ago
    $100/hr for remote work is not a lot of money. Developers need to take this on board. I realize that lots of people don't know this. And that lots of people do in fact make less than that. But that's often because they are leaving a lot of money on the table. Sadly, the standard reaction upon learning how much this profession actually pays if you ask is to call whoever filled you in a liar. If you can get over the initial defensiveness and unwillingness to take on new information, you can get to the important next step where you actually go out and ask for that rate for your next gig. You'll find that it's less than half what good clients will pay. Long term, not just one day a year, no foolin'.
    - lj3 9y ago
      > Sadly, the standard reaction upon learning how much this profession actually pays if you ask is to call whoever filled you in a liar. I suspect those people get frustrated because what you're describing isn't something they experience in the real world. I know it kind of ticks me off when somebody says 'just ask for more money!' when I know damned well there's a lot more to it than that. Experiences vary greatly depending on the industry you're working for and the skills you have available to you. > you can get to the important next step where you actually go out and ask for that rate for your next gig. I did that once, based on reading what you and patio11 wrote. Long story short, not all companies can afford the rate you're describing and I'd rather take $50/h and pay the bills than hold out for the mythical client willing to pay more than $200/hr.

Eh. I hire developers overseas on the regular. Senior devs, or people who can pass for one, are making ~$30/USD/hour regardless of location if they have conversational level english skills. Yes, having skills I want as an employer is important. There's no free lunch. Let's assume their fill rate is only 50% of their total time. That's still ~$32k USD / year. This is great money even in a developed country like Russia where the median income is ~$5k/USD/year.

ryanwaggoner 9y ago
Just because you're hiring allegedly [1] senior devs for $30/hr doesn't mean they couldn't charge a lot more, or that you just aren't exposed to the ones charging $150 because they avoid lowballers. 1. Yes, I'm skeptical, having worked with (or worse, after) a lot of overseas devs who charge in that range, or more. None were truly "senior".
Const-me 9y ago
Agree about conversational English. Disagree about the rate. Depends on specialization, reputation, portfolio, experience, negotiation skills, and many other things.

nathan_f77 9y ago

If anyone has specialized skills, great English, and a great reputation, I think they should be able to earn $100+ per hour as a software developer. It shouldn't matter where they are from, where they are currently living, or what their name sounds like. Unfortunately, there are still racial, cultural, and gender barriers. The sad truth is that someone from Russia, India, or Thailand would find it a lot easier to get high-paying work if they pretended to be a "digital nomad", and used a fake name and a fake profile picture. They would be doing the exactly the same work under a pseudonym. I don't reduce my rates while living in countries like Thailand. I don't see why someone who is born in Thailand should charge so much less, if they can do the same work.

dbancajas 9y ago
so you earn 800$/day? Or is this freelance kind of thing where you only get to charge 3 hrs/day? Still 100/hr for remote work is a lot of money.
- nathan_f77 9y ago
  People will often charge a daily or weekly rate, and may offer a lower rate if the project will take a long time. But $100 per hour is nothing crazy, and I think it's actually on the low end for a good software developer. It's not uncommon for a remote software developer to charge between $100 and $200 per hour, depending on their experience. If you have some very specialized knowledge and a strong reputation, you might have a weekly rate of $10,000. (But these are typically very short term engagements.) patio11 has a lot of good posts that talk about consulting rates: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2015/05/01/talking-about-money/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2015/05/01/talking-about-money/
- jasonkester 9y ago
  $100/hr for remote work is not a lot of money. Developers need to take this on board. I realize that lots of people don't know this. And that lots of people do in fact make less than that. But that's often because they are leaving a lot of money on the table. Sadly, the standard reaction upon learning how much this profession actually pays if you ask is to call whoever filled you in a liar. If you can get over the initial defensiveness and unwillingness to take on new information, you can get to the important next step where you actually go out and ask for that rate for your next gig. You'll find that it's less than half what good clients will pay. Long term, not just one day a year, no foolin'.
  - lj3 9y ago
    > Sadly, the standard reaction upon learning how much this profession actually pays if you ask is to call whoever filled you in a liar. I suspect those people get frustrated because what you're describing isn't something they experience in the real world. I know it kind of ticks me off when somebody says 'just ask for more money!' when I know damned well there's a lot more to it than that. Experiences vary greatly depending on the industry you're working for and the skills you have available to you. > you can get to the important next step where you actually go out and ask for that rate for your next gig. I did that once, based on reading what you and patio11 wrote. Long story short, not all companies can afford the rate you're describing and I'd rather take $50/h and pay the bills than hold out for the mythical client willing to pay more than $200/hr.