6 ms·

I'm not sure what the long term effects of chronic melatonin supplementation are, but I'll find out eventually. I've been taking between 3-6mg of melatonin ever

I'm not sure what the long term effects of chronic melatonin supplementation are, but I'll find out eventually. I've been taking between 3-6mg of melatonin every night for the past few years (2011?) It's almost required. Without it my sleep cycle seems fine at first, but then gets out of whack as I can't seem to keep a circadian rhythm in line with the rest of society / the earth's rotation. On the opposite end of the spectrum, I can't function mentally without caffeine. I tried going off caffeine a few times, and while the withdrawal effects were horrible, they eventually passed and everything felt great except my ability to concentrate on anything. Sadly I can't afford to see a doctor for my ADHD meds. While caffeine helps, it still leaves much to be desired. Exercise helps immensely, both in terms of sleep and ability to concentrate, but at some point I injured my upper back (rhomboids and rotator cuff muscles), so I can't get the same level of exercise I had before.

htk 9y ago
I share the habits (melatonin, caffeine and exercise) and eventual strategies (coffee withdrawal from time to time). Would you care to elaborate on your methods? (What time do you take melatonin, how much and at what time do you take coffee?) Thanks!
- RandomInteger4 9y ago
  For caffeine, I'm probably consuming way too much. I use french roast (less caffeine + less acid) with an espresso machine (course grind folgers rather than fine grind). I think it comes out to roughly slightly less than 1.5 cups (12 fluid ounces) per dose. I take a dose within about 1 - 1.5 hours of waking up and another dose half way through the day. I need to start taking the second dose earlier so 1) I don't experience the mid day crash and 2) there's less in my system when I go to bed. For melatonin I take 3mg about an hour or two before going to bed and another 3mg right before going to bed. Sleep is generally good, but not as much as I would like, which I think is partly due to going to bed too late, thus light entering my room due to insufficient window blackout methods. Something weird I notice about melatonin is that it helps me get work done just before bed, because my mind thinks less about it and just does it, but this probably isn't the best way to work.
- phonon 9y ago
  Try Theanine with your caffeine...it makes you less jittery, and mostly prevents withdrawal symptoms.
TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
I take melatonin for sleep only as necessary. I work a physically demanding job that requires approximately 50% computer time, so I find the mixed physical & mental effort of work tiring. What I found help immensely with regaining my focus and mental clarity after coming off caffeine, and before that methamphetamine 4 days out of 7 for nearly a year, is taking a multi B vitamin plus 1000mcg methylcobalamin (also known as 'Activated B12') sublingually, and 200mg B6 once or twice a day, along with eating fewer sweet things and more protein and raw fats (butter and coconut oil). Plus chiropractic / osteopathic adjustments to deal with my crooked postural habits. I also find Liquorice root as strong decoction immensely restorative. That's what has worked for me. N=1 and all that. Full disclosure: I hold a Diploma in Western Herbal Medicine and an Advanced Diploma in Clinical Nutrition. For what it's worth.
- Hydraulix989 9y ago
  Vitamins are a complete scam. They aren't even FDA regulated. After I read about their ineffectiveness and possible harm, I threw all of my bottles into the garbage can. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/07/the-vitamin-myth-why-we-think-we-need-supplements/277947/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/07/the-vitam... The placebo effect is powerful. I highly recommend reading Topol's "The Creative Destruction of Medicine" for more information.
  - zzalpha 9y ago
    The one vitamin worth taking for anyone living in a northern climate is D, particularly if, like me, you don't consume a lot of dairy. Beyond that, I agree, vitamins are entirely unnecessary.
    - casicone 9y ago
      Also those who suffer from Celiac Disease, like myself, are often low on Iron and are recommended to take iron supplements to prevent anemia.
      - 9y ago
michaelcampbell 9y ago
That's... a lot (of melatonin). You might try much smaller doses and see if you get the same benefits. It has an odd efficacy curve, if sites like longecity are to be believed. But if that's the case, you may be as well off with way less; like 0.5 to 1mg.
baddox 9y ago
I've been taking melatonin most nights for about ten years. I haven't noticed any negative effects, other than I'm not sure if it really helps me anymore. I started early in college when I realized my high school sleep schedule (less than 5 hours on week nights) wasn't going to work with more demanding academics. It quickly "solved" my sleep issues, but I've continued to take it most nights. My sleep schedule now is pretty regular and great, and I forget to take melatonin every so often and never really notice a difference. So it could be that I have tolerance, but it just doesn't matter since my routine is effective at maintaining good sleep. I agree with exercise helping immensely, but I don't drink any caffeine so I can't comment on that.
lwlml 9y ago
Gwern has an extensive write up on melatonin at https://www.gwern.net/Melatonin https://www.gwern.net/Melatonin Personally if I'm off caffeine for too long the resulting metabolism strangeness takes me out for about a day, but the next time that happens I'm going to try a good amount of water and salt to see if that can combat it. Probably something around 1L/6g salt. Other things to consider with caffeine: adding l-theanine to temper the jitters. [ Search for l-theanine caffeine stack for other information on this. ] Exercise definitely helps with concentration. I believe that it was only recently "discovered" that the brain is a giant lymph node and the only times it appears to be able to clear the decks of waste are when you're asleep or when you're pumping blood with a good exertion. [ http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v523/n7560/full/nature14432.html http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v523/n7560/full/nature1... ]
suneilp 9y ago
If your sleep cycle goes out of whack without melatonin, that sounds like a dysfunctional pineal gland. What are you doing in terms of diet? Consider working with a doctor who practices functional medicine that will look for underlying causes like chemical imbalances/deficiencies (like nutrients and minerals)
- RandomInteger4 9y ago
  For the most part, my diet is generally on the healthy-ish side; brown rice, beans, eggs, protein shakes with lactose-free milk, oats, cocoa powder, and activia. Veggies include onions, carrots, cabbage, split peas, lentils, and broccoli / collard greens. Also natural peanut butter and sunflower seeds to varying degrees.
amiga-workbench 9y ago
Melatonin doesn't seem to be ideal for me. I'm taking 3mg and while it does knock me out fairly quickly, I'll wake up only a few hours later and find it almost impossible to get back to sleep again. I'm usually even more tired than I would have been without it. I've cut caffeine completely out of my diet and I'm finding it very difficult to concentrate, theres a fog in my brain which only occasionally lifts (and on those days I get loads done)
rhexs 9y ago
I took melatonin for years (low dose 500mcg). In retrospect, after taking melatonin I don't recall any dreams. I'd only dream after not taking it for a day or two then taking a dose of melatonin. About two weeks after stopping melatonin altogether, I now recall dreams every night. Stopped taking it due to insomnia getting worse and worse and figure I'd see what would happen without it. First week was rough, back to normal after that. Meaningless anecdote about what is most likely placebo, but I found it a bit interesting. Forgot what it was like to dream every night. Not planning on taking it again.
- starshadowx2 9y ago
  I take a mix of melatonin, l-theanine, and 5-htp almost every night to go to sleep, and I've definitely found that if I don't take it for a couple days (usually Fri and Sat night) then take it again, my dreams are overly vivid and memorable. While I'm on it, they're pretty suppressed. I used to take 10mg of melatonin every night and the effects were the same I'd say, so it doesn't seem to matter on dosage.
charsifood 9y ago
You're taking way too much. >>"According to our research, the physiological dose of melatonin of about 0.3 milligrams restores sleep in adults over the age of 50," said Wurtman, lead investigator in the study. "The adults who would normally wake up during the second and third thirds of the night were able to sleep through the night with the 0.3 milligram dosage." The researchers also discovered that the typical health food store dosage of melatonin, which is about three milligrams (or 10 times the dosage in the study), is less effective in treating insomnia. [1] Personally, I take about .1 mg every night sublingually. 1. http://news.mit.edu/2001/melatonin-1017 http://news.mit.edu/2001/melatonin-1017

htk 9y ago

I share the habits (melatonin, caffeine and exercise) and eventual strategies (coffee withdrawal from time to time). Would you care to elaborate on your methods? (What time do you take melatonin, how much and at what time do you take coffee?) Thanks!

RandomInteger4 9y ago
For caffeine, I'm probably consuming way too much. I use french roast (less caffeine + less acid) with an espresso machine (course grind folgers rather than fine grind). I think it comes out to roughly slightly less than 1.5 cups (12 fluid ounces) per dose. I take a dose within about 1 - 1.5 hours of waking up and another dose half way through the day. I need to start taking the second dose earlier so 1) I don't experience the mid day crash and 2) there's less in my system when I go to bed. For melatonin I take 3mg about an hour or two before going to bed and another 3mg right before going to bed. Sleep is generally good, but not as much as I would like, which I think is partly due to going to bed too late, thus light entering my room due to insufficient window blackout methods. Something weird I notice about melatonin is that it helps me get work done just before bed, because my mind thinks less about it and just does it, but this probably isn't the best way to work.
phonon 9y ago
Try Theanine with your caffeine...it makes you less jittery, and mostly prevents withdrawal symptoms.

TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago

I take melatonin for sleep only as necessary. I work a physically demanding job that requires approximately 50% computer time, so I find the mixed physical & mental effort of work tiring. What I found help immensely with regaining my focus and mental clarity after coming off caffeine, and before that methamphetamine 4 days out of 7 for nearly a year, is taking a multi B vitamin plus 1000mcg methylcobalamin (also known as 'Activated B12') sublingually, and 200mg B6 once or twice a day, along with eating fewer sweet things and more protein and raw fats (butter and coconut oil). Plus chiropractic / osteopathic adjustments to deal with my crooked postural habits. I also find Liquorice root as strong decoction immensely restorative. That's what has worked for me. N=1 and all that. Full disclosure: I hold a Diploma in Western Herbal Medicine and an Advanced Diploma in Clinical Nutrition. For what it's worth.

Hydraulix989 9y ago
Vitamins are a complete scam. They aren't even FDA regulated. After I read about their ineffectiveness and possible harm, I threw all of my bottles into the garbage can. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/07/the-vitamin-myth-why-we-think-we-need-supplements/277947/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/07/the-vitam... The placebo effect is powerful. I highly recommend reading Topol's "The Creative Destruction of Medicine" for more information.
- zzalpha 9y ago
  The one vitamin worth taking for anyone living in a northern climate is D, particularly if, like me, you don't consume a lot of dairy. Beyond that, I agree, vitamins are entirely unnecessary.
  - casicone 9y ago
    Also those who suffer from Celiac Disease, like myself, are often low on Iron and are recommended to take iron supplements to prevent anemia.
    - 9y ago

michaelcampbell 9y ago

That's... a lot (of melatonin). You might try much smaller doses and see if you get the same benefits. It has an odd efficacy curve, if sites like longecity are to be believed. But if that's the case, you may be as well off with way less; like 0.5 to 1mg.

baddox 9y ago

I've been taking melatonin most nights for about ten years. I haven't noticed any negative effects, other than I'm not sure if it really helps me anymore. I started early in college when I realized my high school sleep schedule (less than 5 hours on week nights) wasn't going to work with more demanding academics. It quickly "solved" my sleep issues, but I've continued to take it most nights. My sleep schedule now is pretty regular and great, and I forget to take melatonin every so often and never really notice a difference. So it could be that I have tolerance, but it just doesn't matter since my routine is effective at maintaining good sleep. I agree with exercise helping immensely, but I don't drink any caffeine so I can't comment on that.

lwlml 9y ago

Gwern has an extensive write up on melatonin at https://www.gwern.net/Melatonin https://www.gwern.net/Melatonin Personally if I'm off caffeine for too long the resulting metabolism strangeness takes me out for about a day, but the next time that happens I'm going to try a good amount of water and salt to see if that can combat it. Probably something around 1L/6g salt. Other things to consider with caffeine: adding l-theanine to temper the jitters. [ Search for l-theanine caffeine stack for other information on this. ] Exercise definitely helps with concentration. I believe that it was only recently "discovered" that the brain is a giant lymph node and the only times it appears to be able to clear the decks of waste are when you're asleep or when you're pumping blood with a good exertion. [ http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v523/n7560/full/nature14432.html http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v523/n7560/full/nature1... ]

suneilp 9y ago

If your sleep cycle goes out of whack without melatonin, that sounds like a dysfunctional pineal gland. What are you doing in terms of diet? Consider working with a doctor who practices functional medicine that will look for underlying causes like chemical imbalances/deficiencies (like nutrients and minerals)

RandomInteger4 9y ago
For the most part, my diet is generally on the healthy-ish side; brown rice, beans, eggs, protein shakes with lactose-free milk, oats, cocoa powder, and activia. Veggies include onions, carrots, cabbage, split peas, lentils, and broccoli / collard greens. Also natural peanut butter and sunflower seeds to varying degrees.

amiga-workbench 9y ago

Melatonin doesn't seem to be ideal for me. I'm taking 3mg and while it does knock me out fairly quickly, I'll wake up only a few hours later and find it almost impossible to get back to sleep again. I'm usually even more tired than I would have been without it. I've cut caffeine completely out of my diet and I'm finding it very difficult to concentrate, theres a fog in my brain which only occasionally lifts (and on those days I get loads done)

rhexs 9y ago

I took melatonin for years (low dose 500mcg). In retrospect, after taking melatonin I don't recall any dreams. I'd only dream after not taking it for a day or two then taking a dose of melatonin. About two weeks after stopping melatonin altogether, I now recall dreams every night. Stopped taking it due to insomnia getting worse and worse and figure I'd see what would happen without it. First week was rough, back to normal after that. Meaningless anecdote about what is most likely placebo, but I found it a bit interesting. Forgot what it was like to dream every night. Not planning on taking it again.

starshadowx2 9y ago
I take a mix of melatonin, l-theanine, and 5-htp almost every night to go to sleep, and I've definitely found that if I don't take it for a couple days (usually Fri and Sat night) then take it again, my dreams are overly vivid and memorable. While I'm on it, they're pretty suppressed. I used to take 10mg of melatonin every night and the effects were the same I'd say, so it doesn't seem to matter on dosage.

charsifood 9y ago

You're taking way too much. >>"According to our research, the physiological dose of melatonin of about 0.3 milligrams restores sleep in adults over the age of 50," said Wurtman, lead investigator in the study. "The adults who would normally wake up during the second and third thirds of the night were able to sleep through the night with the 0.3 milligram dosage." The researchers also discovered that the typical health food store dosage of melatonin, which is about three milligrams (or 10 times the dosage in the study), is less effective in treating insomnia. [1] Personally, I take about .1 mg every night sublingually. 1. http://news.mit.edu/2001/melatonin-1017 http://news.mit.edu/2001/melatonin-1017