4 ms·

Activism for transparency is not a value judgment? Analysis of information suppression by governments in relation to events and information which affect the li

by madair 16y ago

Activism for transparency is not a value judgment? Analysis of information suppression by governments in relation to events and information which affect the lives of billions seems like a value judgment too.

tptacek 16y ago
I don't know who you're arguing with, but it isn't me. I'm irritated that an opinion journalist is making an important story harder to understand by framing it as a contest between self-interested journalists and idealistic whistleblowers, when in fact the motivations of Lamo and Poulsen have very little to do with what actually happened. Maybe Lamo sold Manning out for a bit of free publicity. Maybe Lamo sold him out because he was terrified of being an accessory to a hard crime that could land him in federal prison for years. Maybe (and I think it's unlikely) he did it because he thought it was the right thing to do. Who cares? He's some guy on the Internet that Manning crazily confessed a serious crime to. We don't need to reform Adrian Lamo.
- yread 16y ago
  I find his analysis very interesting and the weird things that happened (especially the fact that Manning as an information analyst, confessed to the leaks on AOL IM!) rather hard to believe. Considering Lamo was sent to a madhouse there could have been other forces at play. I think it is an important story!
  - tptacek 16y ago
    How does it change your understanding of the world to learn that Lamo is not a trustworthy intermediary? Most of the people in the world who you could tell that you were leaking classified secrets would not keep that confidence.
    - yread 16y ago
      Well, for a moment I comfortably believed what I read as a true history of how it actually happened. After reading the article I'm again sure that there is no way how can I really know what happened in cases where military or intelligence is involved. And that is very important I think
      - tptacek 16y ago
        There is zero evidence whatsoever that the military or intelligence agencies had anything to do with outing Manning, despite the fact that doing so is precisely their job, and that their failure to do so is the real scandal in this story. Instead, there are a series of insinuations in Greenwald's post that despite the firsthand reporting in Wired and the web of motivations attributed to Lamo and Poulsen, there might also be the shadowy hand of military intelligence involved. Again my point: Greenwald is harming our understanding of what happened here.
        yread 16y ago
        There definitely was some involvement! Do you think that FBI after receiving the chats and arranging stuff with Lamo just said "Ah cheers for the info, pal. Now go tell your friends and Wired and whoever you want whatever you want." I think the first thing they would tell him is to shut up about it. Why did he publicized it? There is your involvement!
        niels_olson 16y ago
        Perhaps, but as a civil liberties lawyer, he's doing his job wel, and from that perspective I commend him. Just as I commend you -- one of the few people on HN I make sure to take notice of.

by madair 16y ago

tptacek 16y ago

I don't know who you're arguing with, but it isn't me. I'm irritated that an opinion journalist is making an important story harder to understand by framing it as a contest between self-interested journalists and idealistic whistleblowers, when in fact the motivations of Lamo and Poulsen have very little to do with what actually happened. Maybe Lamo sold Manning out for a bit of free publicity. Maybe Lamo sold him out because he was terrified of being an accessory to a hard crime that could land him in federal prison for years. Maybe (and I think it's unlikely) he did it because he thought it was the right thing to do. Who cares? He's some guy on the Internet that Manning crazily confessed a serious crime to. We don't need to reform Adrian Lamo.

yread 16y ago
I find his analysis very interesting and the weird things that happened (especially the fact that Manning as an information analyst, confessed to the leaks on AOL IM!) rather hard to believe. Considering Lamo was sent to a madhouse there could have been other forces at play. I think it is an important story!
- tptacek 16y ago
  How does it change your understanding of the world to learn that Lamo is not a trustworthy intermediary? Most of the people in the world who you could tell that you were leaking classified secrets would not keep that confidence.
  - yread 16y ago
    Well, for a moment I comfortably believed what I read as a true history of how it actually happened. After reading the article I'm again sure that there is no way how can I really know what happened in cases where military or intelligence is involved. And that is very important I think
    - tptacek 16y ago
      There is zero evidence whatsoever that the military or intelligence agencies had anything to do with outing Manning, despite the fact that doing so is precisely their job, and that their failure to do so is the real scandal in this story. Instead, there are a series of insinuations in Greenwald's post that despite the firsthand reporting in Wired and the web of motivations attributed to Lamo and Poulsen, there might also be the shadowy hand of military intelligence involved. Again my point: Greenwald is harming our understanding of what happened here.
      - yread 16y ago
        There definitely was some involvement! Do you think that FBI after receiving the chats and arranging stuff with Lamo just said "Ah cheers for the info, pal. Now go tell your friends and Wired and whoever you want whatever you want." I think the first thing they would tell him is to shut up about it. Why did he publicized it? There is your involvement!
      - niels_olson 16y ago
        Perhaps, but as a civil liberties lawyer, he's doing his job wel, and from that perspective I commend him. Just as I commend you -- one of the few people on HN I make sure to take notice of.