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Yes, it's a cyclic trend in IT: Step 0. Well functioning and balanced company. Step 1. Why these engineers are so expensive? We can hire 'ten for one' in '

Yes, it's a cyclic trend in IT: Step 0. Well functioning and balanced company. Step 1. Why these engineers are so expensive? We can hire 'ten for one' in 'country A'. Step 2. Cut local IT budget twice, put goals to have *zero* local IT budget in 2 years. Outsource everything to 'country A'. Step 3. People are fired, everything is outsourced, operational knowledge accumulated over the last few years is lost. Step 4. Why everything is broken and we loosing millions? The service is of a quality like we live in 'country A'! Step 5. We need to hire high quality local team that can take *ownership* over product. We are willing to pay a fortune. Step 6. Well functioning and balanced company. Not sure, if airplane maintenance is being treated the same way.

Zigurd 9y ago
You cat bet it is: http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/11/airplane-maintenance-disturbing-truth http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/11/airplane-maintenance-... FTA: >The airplanes that U.S. carriers send to Aeroman undergo what’s known in the industry as “heavy maintenance,” which often involves a complete teardown of the aircraft. Every plate and panel on the wings, tail, flaps, and rudder are unscrewed, and all the parts within—cables, brackets, bearings, and bolts—are removed for inspection. The landing gear is disassembled and checked for cracks, hydraulic leaks, and corrosion. The engines are removed and inspected for wear. Inside, the passenger seats, tray tables, overhead bins, carpeting, and side panels are removed until the cabin has been stripped down to bare metal. Then everything is put back exactly where it was, at least in theory. >The work is labor-intensive and complicated, and the technical manuals are written in English, the language of international aviation. According to regulations, in order to receive F.A.A. certification as a mechanic, a worker needs to be able to “read, speak, write, and comprehend spoken English.” Most of the mechanics in El Salvador and some other developing countries who take apart the big jets and then put them back together are unable to meet this standard. At Aeroman’s El Salvador facility, only one mechanic out of eight is F.A.A.-certified. At a major overhaul base used by United Airlines in China, the ratio is one F.A.A.-certified mechanic for every 31 non-certified mechanics. In contrast, back when U.S. airlines performed heavy maintenance at their own, domestic facilities, F.A.A.-certified mechanics far outnumbered everyone else. At American Airlines’ mammoth heavy-maintenance facility in Tulsa, certified mechanics outnumber the uncertified four to one.
- raverbashing 9y ago
  To be honest this article is not great Maintenance facilities are usually certified by the local aviation authority Aviation is also "regulated" by two extra entities: plane lessors and insurance companies. Both won't be happy if the maintenance done at these facilities is not correct
typednothing 9y ago
> We can hire 'ten for one' in a country A. Rather: 'two for one'.
- chinhodado 9y ago
  Why just two? The average salary in a western country is many times that in a third world country, and ten times is not that unusual.
  - prodmerc 9y ago
    Unless you're an idiot and outsourcing critical operations to India or China, it's more like ~4 for 1. Third world countries are developing, you should keep up with that.
    - billforsternz 9y ago
      I think the narrative here is that yes, the pointy heads are idiots.
    - emiliobumachar 9y ago
      >>Unless you're an idiot and outsourcing critical operations to India or China [...] I've heard rumours that the Chinese will just copy your IP as soon as possible, regardless of what you make them sign. But what's supposed to be wrong in India compared to other outsourcing sites?
  - SZJX 9y ago
    What country are you talking about? In India I don't know but in China the living costs are skyrocketing and are in many occasions more expensive than in major western cities. 2 for 1 (if the team lives in a big city) or at most 4 for 1 is what I believe would be the upper bound. Well if you truly talk about "third world country" then sure, 10 for 1 but what kind of country and IT operation would that be?
sbov 9y ago
Or, sometimes: Step 5. We need to hire high quality local team that can take ownership over product. We are willing to pay a fortune. But we can't hire anyone local, because we did step 3 for too long or too often, and that knowledge is locally gone.
- dmix 9y ago
  I thought Step 5 would be: lets hire an overpriced western big name consulting firm to fix our 'temporary' problem.
raarts 9y ago
The problem is (and I've seen this happening) for many managers or C-levels, it's really hard to see the distinction between high- and low quality. They just can't tell. So if all offers look the same quality to you, you obviously buy the cheapest.
- inflagranti 9y ago
  Or you delegate to people who can? Or at the very least don't change anything you don't understand!? The root cause of course is the MBA type without the technical background being put in charge of engineering teams in the first place.

Zigurd 9y ago

You cat bet it is: http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/11/airplane-maintenance-disturbing-truth http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/11/airplane-maintenance-... FTA: >The airplanes that U.S. carriers send to Aeroman undergo what’s known in the industry as “heavy maintenance,” which often involves a complete teardown of the aircraft. Every plate and panel on the wings, tail, flaps, and rudder are unscrewed, and all the parts within—cables, brackets, bearings, and bolts—are removed for inspection. The landing gear is disassembled and checked for cracks, hydraulic leaks, and corrosion. The engines are removed and inspected for wear. Inside, the passenger seats, tray tables, overhead bins, carpeting, and side panels are removed until the cabin has been stripped down to bare metal. Then everything is put back exactly where it was, at least in theory. >The work is labor-intensive and complicated, and the technical manuals are written in English, the language of international aviation. According to regulations, in order to receive F.A.A. certification as a mechanic, a worker needs to be able to “read, speak, write, and comprehend spoken English.” Most of the mechanics in El Salvador and some other developing countries who take apart the big jets and then put them back together are unable to meet this standard. At Aeroman’s El Salvador facility, only one mechanic out of eight is F.A.A.-certified. At a major overhaul base used by United Airlines in China, the ratio is one F.A.A.-certified mechanic for every 31 non-certified mechanics. In contrast, back when U.S. airlines performed heavy maintenance at their own, domestic facilities, F.A.A.-certified mechanics far outnumbered everyone else. At American Airlines’ mammoth heavy-maintenance facility in Tulsa, certified mechanics outnumber the uncertified four to one.

raverbashing 9y ago
To be honest this article is not great Maintenance facilities are usually certified by the local aviation authority Aviation is also "regulated" by two extra entities: plane lessors and insurance companies. Both won't be happy if the maintenance done at these facilities is not correct

typednothing 9y ago

> We can hire 'ten for one' in a country A. Rather: 'two for one'.

chinhodado 9y ago
Why just two? The average salary in a western country is many times that in a third world country, and ten times is not that unusual.
- prodmerc 9y ago
  Unless you're an idiot and outsourcing critical operations to India or China, it's more like ~4 for 1. Third world countries are developing, you should keep up with that.
  - billforsternz 9y ago
    I think the narrative here is that yes, the pointy heads are idiots.
  - emiliobumachar 9y ago
    >>Unless you're an idiot and outsourcing critical operations to India or China [...] I've heard rumours that the Chinese will just copy your IP as soon as possible, regardless of what you make them sign. But what's supposed to be wrong in India compared to other outsourcing sites?
- SZJX 9y ago
  What country are you talking about? In India I don't know but in China the living costs are skyrocketing and are in many occasions more expensive than in major western cities. 2 for 1 (if the team lives in a big city) or at most 4 for 1 is what I believe would be the upper bound. Well if you truly talk about "third world country" then sure, 10 for 1 but what kind of country and IT operation would that be?

sbov 9y ago

Or, sometimes: Step 5. We need to hire high quality local team that can take ownership over product. We are willing to pay a fortune. But we can't hire anyone local, because we did step 3 for too long or too often, and that knowledge is locally gone.

dmix 9y ago
I thought Step 5 would be: lets hire an overpriced western big name consulting firm to fix our 'temporary' problem.

raarts 9y ago

The problem is (and I've seen this happening) for many managers or C-levels, it's really hard to see the distinction between high- and low quality. They just can't tell. So if all offers look the same quality to you, you obviously buy the cheapest.

inflagranti 9y ago
Or you delegate to people who can? Or at the very least don't change anything you don't understand!? The root cause of course is the MBA type without the technical background being put in charge of engineering teams in the first place.