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I would have been fine with Aadhar if - They didn't rely on fingerprints, as they are easy to fake, without a high degree of technical sophistication - There

I would have been fine with Aadhar if - They didn't rely on fingerprints, as they are easy to fake, without a high degree of technical sophistication - There would not be an API for commercial services I just want the government to be able to provide its services smoothly. I don't want random startups leaking or selling everyone's data.

realonedev 9y ago
Where exactly is data leaked ? All the news you hear about Aadhar privacy are fake .
aub3bhat 9y ago
>> They didn't rely on fingerprints, as they are easy to fake, without a high degree of technical sophistication Aadhar provides multiple levels of security, Number > Fingerprint > Iris >= OTP / Two-Factor. Finally fingerprints are not as easy to fake, even if they are faked depending on deployment a system can randomly ask for higher level of authentication such as iris or OTP. By having these multiple authentication methods its easier to tune the system for fraud detection vs ease-of-use. I can understand why the government is not publicizing all the anti-fraud measures since its always a game of cat & mouse. >> There would not be an API for commercial services This makes no sense, in USA the SSN is typically shared with thousands of services, landlords, apps. In fact the API has potential to open up secure commerce and break the MasterCard/Visa duopoly.
- xeronkek 9y ago
  What if a guy was in a crime scene with my fingerprints all over it? Because he got that data from AADHAR data base and used it to carry out that crime,meanwhile I was on the vicinity having a good time in a restaurant with no CCTV camera? Who will prove my innocence?
  - Paradigma11 9y ago
    Dont you think that in your above scenario the possible aquisition of your fingerprints are by far the most trivial aspect.
mundanevoice 9y ago
You do understand that it doesn't only rely on fingerprints, right? There is retinal verification in addition to phone OTP. I had another phone number when I got Aadhar, I changed the city, lost my phone number and now there is no way, I can without physically getting somewhere and submitting the application to update my phone number. API for commercial services isn't a bad thing per se. A lot of time, it would save time in documentation. Btw, if you have such a privacy concern, Are you not using Facebook, Whatsapp and all other services for free that sell you data, you behaviour to commercial companies. It's really easy to believe the FUD going on and coming up some original ideas on how to tackle the problem. I hope you are in the second group that would help make our Country a better place to live in.
- ganduG 9y ago
  But using Facebook and other websites is a choice. Using Aadhar is not a choice - its mandatory.
  - mundanevoice 9y ago
    How do you suggest in a country of fucking Billion people you would get people to use something? 40% people don't understand shit, doesn't care about privacy, they want food on their table, they want to get the money they rightfully earn. These people are less fortunate than many of us. With Aadhar and Household gas linked, they get the subsidy rightly in their bank account without paying every fucking agent that would loot them at any possible point. I agree, making it mandatory for "Income Tax" is bit controversial. But even you also know how many people in India, rightfully pay taxes. The percentage is pretty damn low. And frankly using Facebook and Twitter is not really a choice. It's a result of being Socially coerced into being on one of the platforms to not feel left out. And anyone who talks about privacy and openness would never be on either of these two if he really knows what he talks about.
    - mindentropy 9y ago
      Just a question to you. I can understand the problems faced by bribery and it being eradicated but how according to your argument can the person who is illiterate understand about privacy or for that matter things he/she is not expert in? To elaborate it is not the responsibility of the illiterates or the people who are not knowledgeable to worry about the privacy. Instead it is the responsibility of the people implementing the system to make sure that all security and privacy is implemented and also the laws to be introduced to protect the common man. This is the very reason the government has think tanks and expert advisors. It seems all these people have failed. When the system fails completely then again it is these same poor common man who will face the brunt presently seen or unseen.
abhishivsaxena 9y ago
1) Fingerprints are harder to fake than what's being used currently - signatures and xerox 2) Fine. Don't authenticate with Aadhaar when you go to get a commercial service. Why force you choice on me? And the info they get is name/dob/gender. Which they would anyway have - Aadhaar or no Aadhaar - since you are their customer. Please think through it.
- devnonymous 9y ago
  > Fingerprints are harder to fake than what's being used currently - signatures and xerox Yes, but once compromised they cannot be changed. Also, could you state clearly whether fingerprints would be used for authentication or identification? > Fine. Don't authenticate with Aadhaar when you go to get a commercial service. Why force you choice on me? Right back at you. I may have a choice when using a commercial service but why is the government forcing me to have an Aadhaar if I never intend to use it? > And the info they get is name/dob/gender. Which they would anyway have - Aadhaar or no Aadhaar - since you are their customer. Yes but they cannot build a profile of me using things like income bracket (pan linking), travel information (rail and air travel linking), social and family ties (various other ways). If you think this isn't even plausible in India, either you have skin in the game or are being (/ intentionally trying to be) incredibly naive.
  - abhishivsaxena 9y ago
    > Right back at you. I may have a choice when using a commercial service but why is the government forcing me to have an Aadhaar if I never intend to use it? Mostly only if you want subsidies. If you are talking about the PAN linkage, you are already required to have PAN. Is that forcing you as well? That way you can even refuse to follow any regulation, arguing that goverment is forcing you. We don't live in an anarchy. If you don't like Aadhaar go vote for some party which will revoke it come next election. If can't do it, maybe think about changing countries. > Yes but they cannot build a profile of me using things like income bracket (pan linking), travel information (rail and air travel linking), social and family ties (various other ways). If you think this isn't even plausible in India, either you have skin in the game or are being (/ intentionally trying to be) incredibly naive. This kinds of profiles can be built using system like Palantair, Aadhaar or no Aaadhaar. Using just Name/DOB/Address can be decent enough identifier. And we already have PAN mandated for high value transactions. Opposing Aadhaar on these grounds, seems extremely silly to me. Again, I am not connected with Aadhaar at all. Not want clicks like some people on this thread. Just a concerned citizen who wants to see technology help the poor/needy. EDIT > Yes, but once compromised they cannot be changed. Also, could you state clearly whether fingerprints would be used for authentication or identification? Identity Authentication, because you identify yourself using the Aadhaar number, then prove it by authenticating. Yes they can't be changed. But since there's an audit trails + you need an insider@service-provider to pass the stolen BM to server, those who try would be easily caught. With signatures/xerox there's no audit trails or instant notification. That's much more insecure if you look at it dispassionately. Many people are not understanding Aadhaar is being used for stuff like bank accounts, food grain etc where this is acceptable. Alternative like signatures, smart-cards, passwords etc wouldn't work in a country like India.

realonedev 9y ago

Where exactly is data leaked ? All the news you hear about Aadhar privacy are fake .

aub3bhat 9y ago

>> They didn't rely on fingerprints, as they are easy to fake, without a high degree of technical sophistication Aadhar provides multiple levels of security, Number > Fingerprint > Iris >= OTP / Two-Factor. Finally fingerprints are not as easy to fake, even if they are faked depending on deployment a system can randomly ask for higher level of authentication such as iris or OTP. By having these multiple authentication methods its easier to tune the system for fraud detection vs ease-of-use. I can understand why the government is not publicizing all the anti-fraud measures since its always a game of cat & mouse. >> There would not be an API for commercial services This makes no sense, in USA the SSN is typically shared with thousands of services, landlords, apps. In fact the API has potential to open up secure commerce and break the MasterCard/Visa duopoly.

xeronkek 9y ago
What if a guy was in a crime scene with my fingerprints all over it? Because he got that data from AADHAR data base and used it to carry out that crime,meanwhile I was on the vicinity having a good time in a restaurant with no CCTV camera? Who will prove my innocence?
- Paradigma11 9y ago
  Dont you think that in your above scenario the possible aquisition of your fingerprints are by far the most trivial aspect.

mundanevoice 9y ago

You do understand that it doesn't only rely on fingerprints, right? There is retinal verification in addition to phone OTP. I had another phone number when I got Aadhar, I changed the city, lost my phone number and now there is no way, I can without physically getting somewhere and submitting the application to update my phone number. API for commercial services isn't a bad thing per se. A lot of time, it would save time in documentation. Btw, if you have such a privacy concern, Are you not using Facebook, Whatsapp and all other services for free that sell you data, you behaviour to commercial companies. It's really easy to believe the FUD going on and coming up some original ideas on how to tackle the problem. I hope you are in the second group that would help make our Country a better place to live in.

ganduG 9y ago
But using Facebook and other websites is a choice. Using Aadhar is not a choice - its mandatory.
- mundanevoice 9y ago
  How do you suggest in a country of fucking Billion people you would get people to use something? 40% people don't understand shit, doesn't care about privacy, they want food on their table, they want to get the money they rightfully earn. These people are less fortunate than many of us. With Aadhar and Household gas linked, they get the subsidy rightly in their bank account without paying every fucking agent that would loot them at any possible point. I agree, making it mandatory for "Income Tax" is bit controversial. But even you also know how many people in India, rightfully pay taxes. The percentage is pretty damn low. And frankly using Facebook and Twitter is not really a choice. It's a result of being Socially coerced into being on one of the platforms to not feel left out. And anyone who talks about privacy and openness would never be on either of these two if he really knows what he talks about.
  - mindentropy 9y ago
    Just a question to you. I can understand the problems faced by bribery and it being eradicated but how according to your argument can the person who is illiterate understand about privacy or for that matter things he/she is not expert in? To elaborate it is not the responsibility of the illiterates or the people who are not knowledgeable to worry about the privacy. Instead it is the responsibility of the people implementing the system to make sure that all security and privacy is implemented and also the laws to be introduced to protect the common man. This is the very reason the government has think tanks and expert advisors. It seems all these people have failed. When the system fails completely then again it is these same poor common man who will face the brunt presently seen or unseen.

abhishivsaxena 9y ago

1) Fingerprints are harder to fake than what's being used currently - signatures and xerox 2) Fine. Don't authenticate with Aadhaar when you go to get a commercial service. Why force you choice on me? And the info they get is name/dob/gender. Which they would anyway have - Aadhaar or no Aadhaar - since you are their customer. Please think through it.

devnonymous 9y ago
> Fingerprints are harder to fake than what's being used currently - signatures and xerox Yes, but once compromised they cannot be changed. Also, could you state clearly whether fingerprints would be used for authentication or identification? > Fine. Don't authenticate with Aadhaar when you go to get a commercial service. Why force you choice on me? Right back at you. I may have a choice when using a commercial service but why is the government forcing me to have an Aadhaar if I never intend to use it? > And the info they get is name/dob/gender. Which they would anyway have - Aadhaar or no Aadhaar - since you are their customer. Yes but they cannot build a profile of me using things like income bracket (pan linking), travel information (rail and air travel linking), social and family ties (various other ways). If you think this isn't even plausible in India, either you have skin in the game or are being (/ intentionally trying to be) incredibly naive.
- abhishivsaxena 9y ago
  > Right back at you. I may have a choice when using a commercial service but why is the government forcing me to have an Aadhaar if I never intend to use it? Mostly only if you want subsidies. If you are talking about the PAN linkage, you are already required to have PAN. Is that forcing you as well? That way you can even refuse to follow any regulation, arguing that goverment is forcing you. We don't live in an anarchy. If you don't like Aadhaar go vote for some party which will revoke it come next election. If can't do it, maybe think about changing countries. > Yes but they cannot build a profile of me using things like income bracket (pan linking), travel information (rail and air travel linking), social and family ties (various other ways). If you think this isn't even plausible in India, either you have skin in the game or are being (/ intentionally trying to be) incredibly naive. This kinds of profiles can be built using system like Palantair, Aadhaar or no Aaadhaar. Using just Name/DOB/Address can be decent enough identifier. And we already have PAN mandated for high value transactions. Opposing Aadhaar on these grounds, seems extremely silly to me. Again, I am not connected with Aadhaar at all. Not want clicks like some people on this thread. Just a concerned citizen who wants to see technology help the poor/needy. EDIT > Yes, but once compromised they cannot be changed. Also, could you state clearly whether fingerprints would be used for authentication or identification? Identity Authentication, because you identify yourself using the Aadhaar number, then prove it by authenticating. Yes they can't be changed. But since there's an audit trails + you need an insider@service-provider to pass the stolen BM to server, those who try would be easily caught. With signatures/xerox there's no audit trails or instant notification. That's much more insecure if you look at it dispassionately. Many people are not understanding Aadhaar is being used for stuff like bank accounts, food grain etc where this is acceptable. Alternative like signatures, smart-cards, passwords etc wouldn't work in a country like India.