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> Norway and Singapore each have ~5M people. Singapore has 130 rapes a year, Norway has 1,000. How do you justify leaving the Norway justice system in place to

> Norway and Singapore each have ~5M people. Singapore has 130 rapes a year, Norway has 1,000. How do you justify leaving the Norway justice system in place to the additional 800 rape victims in Norway, when a better system for reducing crime has been invented? I feel obligated to point out that you are assuming that the rate of reporting (and being believed by the authorities making these statistics!) (EDIT: as well as the strictness of the legal definition thereof) is equal in both countries. I have my doubts about that.

tuna-piano 9y ago
Yes, I tried to point that out in my [5] above. But Singapore seems better in basically all crime metrics, including murder and crimes that are perhaps better defined and reported. Still leaves questions as to how much is cultural and how much is because of the justice system. But it's tough for me to imagine a world where caning doesn't decrease the amount of graffiti, auto thefts, bank robberies, etc. -How many would start doing crimes of opportunity (graffiti, auto thefts, bank robberies, etc) because caning was implemented? (an absurd question) -How many who currently do those crimes would not do those crimes if there is the possibility of significant unwanted punishment? The fact that recidivism is so high suggests this is not a problem of catching and sentencing criminals (recidivism is only those who are caught/charged!). This is a problem of the punishment not being enough to deter the actions.
qw 9y ago
Scandinavian countries have a wide range of definitions of rape (which is a good thing). That means a lot of situations that are not classified as rape in other countries are included. In 2015, 97 of the rapes in Norway were classified as "assault rapes". That means that someone used violence/force, drugs or threats to rape her (or him). One example taken from Singapore is that if a woman is penetrated anally it is not classified as rape, but sexual assault. Another example taken from Singapore is that a married man can by definition not commit rape against his wife unless they have been living apart. Marital status does not give any protection in Scandinavia when someone says no. Seeing how the definition of rape in Singapore is so different than in Scandinavia makes me think we can't compare the numbers without giving proper context.

tuna-piano 9y ago

Yes, I tried to point that out in my [5] above. But Singapore seems better in basically all crime metrics, including murder and crimes that are perhaps better defined and reported. Still leaves questions as to how much is cultural and how much is because of the justice system. But it's tough for me to imagine a world where caning doesn't decrease the amount of graffiti, auto thefts, bank robberies, etc. -How many would start doing crimes of opportunity (graffiti, auto thefts, bank robberies, etc) because caning was implemented? (an absurd question) -How many who currently do those crimes would not do those crimes if there is the possibility of significant unwanted punishment? The fact that recidivism is so high suggests this is not a problem of catching and sentencing criminals (recidivism is only those who are caught/charged!). This is a problem of the punishment not being enough to deter the actions.

qw 9y ago

Scandinavian countries have a wide range of definitions of rape (which is a good thing). That means a lot of situations that are not classified as rape in other countries are included. In 2015, 97 of the rapes in Norway were classified as "assault rapes". That means that someone used violence/force, drugs or threats to rape her (or him). One example taken from Singapore is that if a woman is penetrated anally it is not classified as rape, but sexual assault. Another example taken from Singapore is that a married man can by definition not commit rape against his wife unless they have been living apart. Marital status does not give any protection in Scandinavia when someone says no. Seeing how the definition of rape in Singapore is so different than in Scandinavia makes me think we can't compare the numbers without giving proper context.