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But if that's what causes the gender gap -- things like starting salary and time off from career, and men with those similar features receive similar pay -- the

But if that's what causes the gender gap -- things like starting salary and time off from career, and men with those similar features receive similar pay -- then it's not a problem of sexism, at least, not on the part of Google. (I don't mean breaks on the maternal leave scale, eg months, I mean breaks of years.) I've noticed that many of these complaints about gendered things are arguments for a particular social arrangement (eg, no consequence to a break in career) and not arguments against sexism, as such. I don't think we shoukd be using equality laws as a bludgeon to effect changes in society outside of things like sexism or racism: that's what causes Trumpian backlashes. Most people are onboard woth fighting sexism; it becomes a mixed bag when talking about proposals like "taking years off should have no result on earnings".

throwawaaay 9y ago
Right - I'm not saying Google is sexist. I think they try very hard not to be. But, if the end result is that a man and a woman doing the exact same job with the same perf ratings at Google are paid differently, because the woman happened to be paid less at her previous job - is that fair? There is a reason that NYC just outlawed companies asking for salary history.
- SomeStupidPoint 9y ago
  If you're not concerned with it being sexist, why the focus on men and women? Would you be equally concerned if men and women were paid in aggregate the same, but the subclass of each that negotiated worse was paid less? I just find it dishonest to frame the question as about men and women, as you did just now, if your concern is that people who negotiate a worse first salary are paid less. You're at best co-opting an unrelated issue. I would say that in answer to your question, it's not fair, just as it wasn't when it happened to two men, but I'm not sure it's something we should change. I'm also going to say that you should stop framing it as a gender equality issue when it's not -- it's a capitalism implementation issue.

throwawaaay 9y ago

Right - I'm not saying Google is sexist. I think they try very hard not to be. But, if the end result is that a man and a woman doing the exact same job with the same perf ratings at Google are paid differently, because the woman happened to be paid less at her previous job - is that fair? There is a reason that NYC just outlawed companies asking for salary history.

SomeStupidPoint 9y ago
If you're not concerned with it being sexist, why the focus on men and women? Would you be equally concerned if men and women were paid in aggregate the same, but the subclass of each that negotiated worse was paid less? I just find it dishonest to frame the question as about men and women, as you did just now, if your concern is that people who negotiate a worse first salary are paid less. You're at best co-opting an unrelated issue. I would say that in answer to your question, it's not fair, just as it wasn't when it happened to two men, but I'm not sure it's something we should change. I'm also going to say that you should stop framing it as a gender equality issue when it's not -- it's a capitalism implementation issue.