3 ms·

It's not really "the west" per se because it's a bit different in Europe vs. US/Canada. And you know what? It's newcomers' jobs to assimilate themselves.

mistermann 9y ago
> It's newcomers' jobs to assimilate themselves. If you wants bombs going off in public places, sure. We are deciding to allow immigration/refugees from these cultures, and we have ample evidence to know what happens when they are managed in the way we are doing now. I think whose "job" it is to manage assimilation is largely irrelevant compared to the effects of not doing it properly.
- raverbashing 9y ago
  > If you wants bombs going off in public places, sure. Better, don't bring them in the first place You can't integrate (some) people who won't let go of their backwards mentality. I don't know why are we trying/pretending in the first place
  - Fnoord 9y ago
    If it only were that simple. A large part of of the profession of counter terrorism is about spotting terrorists before they strike. The signal to noise ratio of just outright stopping helping refugees or allowing Muslims to enter just is too low, and downright discrimination. IOW the collateral damage would be too high. The casualties/deaths in these statistics alone underline this. One should also think deeply of the repercussions of actions like these, or actions like building walls, bombing a country, etc. As a parallel thought. The mass murder in Srebrenica was executed by Serbs; who are in large majority Orthodox Christian. The conflicts in medieval Europe between Catholics and Atheists, and Catholics and Protestants are also widely documented (Spanish Inquisition etc). It'd be silly to draw conclusions towards all Orthodox Christians or Catholics. Silly and also dangerous. How would you feel if you're on vacation in Egypt and every Muslim you see regards you as a warmonger, just because you are from the West and your country supported the war in Iraq? Generalizations like these are a dangerous line of thinking. We must refrain from these, and understand not everyone with political view X or religion Y is therefore A or B even if it does statistically speaking (merely) increase the likelihood.
    - raverbashing 9y ago
      > It'd be silly to draw conclusions towards all Orthodox Christians or Catholics. But I'm not. I'm not worried about tourists from any country in general, I'm worried about people that come to Europe expecting a free ride while not think they have to adapt. Then somehow if they get frustrated "it's the west's fault". Come on. And get rid of the well financed ones that "are asking for asylum" because "they're persecuted in their home country" (for being an islamist) > is therefore A or B even if it does statistically speaking (merely) increase the likelihood. "Merely" is ending up with a lot of people killed.
      - tnzn 9y ago
        Yet several studies have shown multicultural policies are better than assimilation ones when it comes to integration. And saying most of them want a free ride is just nonsense.
        mistermann 9y ago
        I'd be curious to read these, doesn't seem logical at all to me.
        raverbashing 9y ago
        > have shown multicultural policies are better than assimilation ones Yes, up to a point, or are we supposed to bend over to accomodate backwards/barbaric practices? Multiculturalism works if it doesn't involve a-holes > And saying most of them want a free ride is just nonsense. I didn't say most. See (try google translate, the video is interesting but can't be easily translated): https://www.reddit.com/r/de/comments/4j9cip/falsche_versprechen_locken_fl%C3%BCchtlinge_an/ https://www.reddit.com/r/de/comments/4j9cip/falsche_versprec... http://cicero.de/berliner-republik/migrationspolitik-jedes-unrecht-beginnt-mit-einer-luege http://cicero.de/berliner-republik/migrationspolitik-jedes-u...
        qb45 9y ago
        The real study is "what happens to the EU in the coming decades". The jury is still out on this one.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
tnzn 9y ago
Why would it be ? And don't give me that bs "if a guy comes into your home" analogy because a country is not a home.
- SamReidHughes 9y ago
  Because you're the one responsible for your life choices and how they affect your happiness and prosperity. If you move to another country, that answers the question, whose job it is to make your life a good one: it's yours.

mistermann 9y ago

> It's newcomers' jobs to assimilate themselves. If you wants bombs going off in public places, sure. We are deciding to allow immigration/refugees from these cultures, and we have ample evidence to know what happens when they are managed in the way we are doing now. I think whose "job" it is to manage assimilation is largely irrelevant compared to the effects of not doing it properly.

raverbashing 9y ago
> If you wants bombs going off in public places, sure. Better, don't bring them in the first place You can't integrate (some) people who won't let go of their backwards mentality. I don't know why are we trying/pretending in the first place
- Fnoord 9y ago
  If it only were that simple. A large part of of the profession of counter terrorism is about spotting terrorists before they strike. The signal to noise ratio of just outright stopping helping refugees or allowing Muslims to enter just is too low, and downright discrimination. IOW the collateral damage would be too high. The casualties/deaths in these statistics alone underline this. One should also think deeply of the repercussions of actions like these, or actions like building walls, bombing a country, etc. As a parallel thought. The mass murder in Srebrenica was executed by Serbs; who are in large majority Orthodox Christian. The conflicts in medieval Europe between Catholics and Atheists, and Catholics and Protestants are also widely documented (Spanish Inquisition etc). It'd be silly to draw conclusions towards all Orthodox Christians or Catholics. Silly and also dangerous. How would you feel if you're on vacation in Egypt and every Muslim you see regards you as a warmonger, just because you are from the West and your country supported the war in Iraq? Generalizations like these are a dangerous line of thinking. We must refrain from these, and understand not everyone with political view X or religion Y is therefore A or B even if it does statistically speaking (merely) increase the likelihood.
  - raverbashing 9y ago
    > It'd be silly to draw conclusions towards all Orthodox Christians or Catholics. But I'm not. I'm not worried about tourists from any country in general, I'm worried about people that come to Europe expecting a free ride while not think they have to adapt. Then somehow if they get frustrated "it's the west's fault". Come on. And get rid of the well financed ones that "are asking for asylum" because "they're persecuted in their home country" (for being an islamist) > is therefore A or B even if it does statistically speaking (merely) increase the likelihood. "Merely" is ending up with a lot of people killed.
    - tnzn 9y ago
      Yet several studies have shown multicultural policies are better than assimilation ones when it comes to integration. And saying most of them want a free ride is just nonsense.
      - mistermann 9y ago
        I'd be curious to read these, doesn't seem logical at all to me.
      - raverbashing 9y ago
        > have shown multicultural policies are better than assimilation ones Yes, up to a point, or are we supposed to bend over to accomodate backwards/barbaric practices? Multiculturalism works if it doesn't involve a-holes > And saying most of them want a free ride is just nonsense. I didn't say most. See (try google translate, the video is interesting but can't be easily translated): https://www.reddit.com/r/de/comments/4j9cip/falsche_versprechen_locken_fl%C3%BCchtlinge_an/ https://www.reddit.com/r/de/comments/4j9cip/falsche_versprec... http://cicero.de/berliner-republik/migrationspolitik-jedes-unrecht-beginnt-mit-einer-luege http://cicero.de/berliner-republik/migrationspolitik-jedes-u...
      - qb45 9y ago
        The real study is "what happens to the EU in the coming decades". The jury is still out on this one.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

tnzn 9y ago

Why would it be ? And don't give me that bs "if a guy comes into your home" analogy because a country is not a home.

SamReidHughes 9y ago
Because you're the one responsible for your life choices and how they affect your happiness and prosperity. If you move to another country, that answers the question, whose job it is to make your life a good one: it's yours.