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I'm one of those people. I think the deposit was put down in a moment of excitement, which has since died down quite a bit. Not only am I one of those people

I'm one of those people. I think the deposit was put down in a moment of excitement, which has since died down quite a bit. Not only am I one of those people who gave them a deposit, I'm also likely one of those people who they meant to target: I drive a BMW 3-series, which would be the Model 3's main competitor. Now given all that, this display made me really not excited about the Model 3. Electric car is nice but that's the only thing the Model 3 has going for it when compared to the 3 series. I don't see them emphasizing self driving and the acceleration is kind of just par for course, which shouldn't be the case for an electric car. Given Tesla's reputation for a Spartan interior, what am I getting out of it other than it being electric? The way I see it, I'm better off waiting a few more years to see if things improve. My current 328i has given me 5 years of good driving and no headache at all. Better integrating with smartphones would be great but the latest 3-series offers that as an option already. So I have to wonder, why a Model 3 over a 3-series?

crush-n-spread 9y ago
Personally I could never drive a ICE car when an equivalent electric vehicle presented itself. I would never forgive myself. Everyone needs to get to electric cars as soon as possible or we cook and die here on Earth. It makes the arguments about the interior seem really tone deaf. Again, personally. EDIT: Autopilot and constant software updates are huge.
- hangonhn 9y ago
  I think your response is a bit narrow and takes my response out of context. It also ignores a number of other issues to make electric cars look better than they really are. 1. Electric cars use a lot of copper and lithium. Mining of both are horribly polluting. The worst EPA superfund site is a former copper mine. Lithium mining is also pretty bad. However they are at least localized. Electric cars still need power, most of which still comes from carbon emitting sources. Until the world switches to renewables, electric cars still generate carbon indirectly. California and other areas are much better about this but Tesla Model 3 customers don't all live in CA. 2. I was trying to answer the initial question from the perspective of a potential customer of the Model 3. If someone is as passionate about the carbon emitting issue as you, they can already do that with Nissan Leaf, BMW i3, or Chevy Volt. They don't need to wait nor pay more for the the Tesla Model 3. So within that context, the other things that make BM3 3-series what it is matters. These things include the interior, etc. 3. BMW already do updates over the air but not nearly at the rate that Tesla does. Tesla really has embraced software whereas other carmakers treat it as an overhead. I really hate how Autopilot is presented. It's not really self-driving because they keep telling you to be involved in the driving process. Until they can confidently say it's completely autonomous, it's more of a novelty than an useful feature. Edited: Kudos for being so passionate about the issue. It does matter to me and which is why I still haven't completely dismissed the Model 3 as a choice.
  - sxates 9y ago
    To be fair on #1, even considering the entire supply chain and lifecycle of an EV vs ICE, the EV comes out WAY ahead of the ICE in terms of carbon impact. Even better if you have solar panels on your roof, or live in a place like California that has a significant amount of renewables in the main grid.
  - icantdrive55 9y ago
    "If someone is as passionate about the carbon emitting issue as you, they can already do that with Nissan Leaf, BMW i3, or Chevy Volt. They don't need to wait nor pay more for the the Tesla Model 3" 1. I don't get it either. Then again--I don't think like a wealthy person. I am drooling for my first electric vechicle, but not willing to spend a lot of money. Plus, as a former mechanic, I want to be able to do all the repairs, including modifying/flashing new software. That might never happen, so I might need to build my own electric vechicle? 2. I do think they are the future though. Form a practical point, they have less things to go wrong. It will be so nice not to have to worry about a transmission that goes at 140k, and not having to worry about smog tests, and all the crap that fossil fuel cars bring. 3. We need to modernize the electrical grid. Since the vechicles are pulling electricity at night, it won't be an immediate problem, but we will eventually need more Power, and better state by state management of the grid. 4. I really think Tesla is making a mistake by not open sourcing certain parts of their software.(just the basic operating system, not the AI portion.) A few years ago, I wanted to buy a wrecked Tesla, and soon found it's practically impossible. Yes--guys wreck them, but you just can't repair them, and get a Salvage title. I buy old vechicles and repair them. I can't do that with a Tesla. I know the founder of Tesla knows the old marketing adage, "If you win over a man, you have him for life." If I had ten minutes with "forget his name--Musk", I would beg him to let the little guys get their hands on wrecked Teslas. Once you win over the Shade Tree mechanics, you might have a product for life. Right now, I just appreciate the Technolgy that's hidden in Teslas. Aesthetically, they look like every other vechicle in my community. Just boring. 4. I do see forsee a big vechicle manufacturer building an affordable, good looking electric vechicle, and blowing away Tesla. Something along the lines of the the old Ford Mustangs.
  - bjelkeman-again 9y ago
- rsync 9y ago
  "EDIT: Autopilot and constant software updates are huge." Huge, unknown unknowns and huge attack surface, respectively. Look, as the owner of an Audi A8 that had all kinds of MMI/Nav/Audio bugs, I very, very much appreciate the idea of frequent and iterative software updates - they were desperately needed. Never once did I ever wish they were provided automatically, over a network connection. Never once did I wish the car even had a network connection. A lot of hard lessons are going to be learned over the next decade. I would prefer that people learned these lessons with their idiotic wifi refrigerators and not on public roads.
jedberg 9y ago
> I drive a BMW 3-series, which would be the Model 3's main competitor. See my other comments about how at the Tesla store they describe the Model 3 as a competitor to the Civic and Corolla, not the BMW and Lexus.
- hangonhn 9y ago
  Oh wow. Do they really think they can succeed with that? A Civic is a LOT cheaper than a Model 3. If Tesla can drive Model 3's price to be competitive with the Civic, then they really, really deserve a lot of accolade. A world with electric Civics would be a huge step forward for the world.
  - jedberg 9y ago
    I think they are hoping to capitalize on the folks that want electric to save the planet or find the autopilot software worth paying extra for.
    - vkou 9y ago
      Civics have autopilot, too.
      - sliken 9y ago
        Yes, but how many lives has it saves per million miles driven?
smw 9y ago
I honestly care less about the all-electric than the autopilot features. Don't really want to spend 100k on a car, but want it to drive for me.
- sliken 9y ago
  Just because you like driving doesn't mean it won't see something before you do. 12 or so cameras, ultrasound, and radar might well draw attention to something before you'd notice it otherwise. Even 0.5 seconds warning might well significantly decrease the severity of a crash or even avoid it. The move obvious example is when a car two cars in front of a tesla had an accident and the telsa warned about it before most people would have noticed.
sliken 9y ago
A decent chance of decreasing the severity of a collision or even avoiding it.

crush-n-spread 9y ago

Personally I could never drive a ICE car when an equivalent electric vehicle presented itself. I would never forgive myself. Everyone needs to get to electric cars as soon as possible or we cook and die here on Earth. It makes the arguments about the interior seem really tone deaf. Again, personally. EDIT: Autopilot and constant software updates are huge.

hangonhn 9y ago
I think your response is a bit narrow and takes my response out of context. It also ignores a number of other issues to make electric cars look better than they really are. 1. Electric cars use a lot of copper and lithium. Mining of both are horribly polluting. The worst EPA superfund site is a former copper mine. Lithium mining is also pretty bad. However they are at least localized. Electric cars still need power, most of which still comes from carbon emitting sources. Until the world switches to renewables, electric cars still generate carbon indirectly. California and other areas are much better about this but Tesla Model 3 customers don't all live in CA. 2. I was trying to answer the initial question from the perspective of a potential customer of the Model 3. If someone is as passionate about the carbon emitting issue as you, they can already do that with Nissan Leaf, BMW i3, or Chevy Volt. They don't need to wait nor pay more for the the Tesla Model 3. So within that context, the other things that make BM3 3-series what it is matters. These things include the interior, etc. 3. BMW already do updates over the air but not nearly at the rate that Tesla does. Tesla really has embraced software whereas other carmakers treat it as an overhead. I really hate how Autopilot is presented. It's not really self-driving because they keep telling you to be involved in the driving process. Until they can confidently say it's completely autonomous, it's more of a novelty than an useful feature. Edited: Kudos for being so passionate about the issue. It does matter to me and which is why I still haven't completely dismissed the Model 3 as a choice.
- sxates 9y ago
  To be fair on #1, even considering the entire supply chain and lifecycle of an EV vs ICE, the EV comes out WAY ahead of the ICE in terms of carbon impact. Even better if you have solar panels on your roof, or live in a place like California that has a significant amount of renewables in the main grid.
- icantdrive55 9y ago
  "If someone is as passionate about the carbon emitting issue as you, they can already do that with Nissan Leaf, BMW i3, or Chevy Volt. They don't need to wait nor pay more for the the Tesla Model 3" 1. I don't get it either. Then again--I don't think like a wealthy person. I am drooling for my first electric vechicle, but not willing to spend a lot of money. Plus, as a former mechanic, I want to be able to do all the repairs, including modifying/flashing new software. That might never happen, so I might need to build my own electric vechicle? 2. I do think they are the future though. Form a practical point, they have less things to go wrong. It will be so nice not to have to worry about a transmission that goes at 140k, and not having to worry about smog tests, and all the crap that fossil fuel cars bring. 3. We need to modernize the electrical grid. Since the vechicles are pulling electricity at night, it won't be an immediate problem, but we will eventually need more Power, and better state by state management of the grid. 4. I really think Tesla is making a mistake by not open sourcing certain parts of their software.(just the basic operating system, not the AI portion.) A few years ago, I wanted to buy a wrecked Tesla, and soon found it's practically impossible. Yes--guys wreck them, but you just can't repair them, and get a Salvage title. I buy old vechicles and repair them. I can't do that with a Tesla. I know the founder of Tesla knows the old marketing adage, "If you win over a man, you have him for life." If I had ten minutes with "forget his name--Musk", I would beg him to let the little guys get their hands on wrecked Teslas. Once you win over the Shade Tree mechanics, you might have a product for life. Right now, I just appreciate the Technolgy that's hidden in Teslas. Aesthetically, they look like every other vechicle in my community. Just boring. 4. I do see forsee a big vechicle manufacturer building an affordable, good looking electric vechicle, and blowing away Tesla. Something along the lines of the the old Ford Mustangs.
- bjelkeman-again 9y ago
rsync 9y ago
"EDIT: Autopilot and constant software updates are huge." Huge, unknown unknowns and huge attack surface, respectively. Look, as the owner of an Audi A8 that had all kinds of MMI/Nav/Audio bugs, I very, very much appreciate the idea of frequent and iterative software updates - they were desperately needed. Never once did I ever wish they were provided automatically, over a network connection. Never once did I wish the car even had a network connection. A lot of hard lessons are going to be learned over the next decade. I would prefer that people learned these lessons with their idiotic wifi refrigerators and not on public roads.

jedberg 9y ago

> I drive a BMW 3-series, which would be the Model 3's main competitor. See my other comments about how at the Tesla store they describe the Model 3 as a competitor to the Civic and Corolla, not the BMW and Lexus.

hangonhn 9y ago
Oh wow. Do they really think they can succeed with that? A Civic is a LOT cheaper than a Model 3. If Tesla can drive Model 3's price to be competitive with the Civic, then they really, really deserve a lot of accolade. A world with electric Civics would be a huge step forward for the world.
- jedberg 9y ago
  I think they are hoping to capitalize on the folks that want electric to save the planet or find the autopilot software worth paying extra for.
  - vkou 9y ago
    Civics have autopilot, too.
    - sliken 9y ago
      Yes, but how many lives has it saves per million miles driven?

smw 9y ago

I honestly care less about the all-electric than the autopilot features. Don't really want to spend 100k on a car, but want it to drive for me.

sliken 9y ago
Just because you like driving doesn't mean it won't see something before you do. 12 or so cameras, ultrasound, and radar might well draw attention to something before you'd notice it otherwise. Even 0.5 seconds warning might well significantly decrease the severity of a crash or even avoid it. The move obvious example is when a car two cars in front of a tesla had an accident and the telsa warned about it before most people would have noticed.

sliken 9y ago

A decent chance of decreasing the severity of a collision or even avoiding it.