8 ms·

Slave, Scholar, Stoic

63 points by diodorus 9y ago

quickben 9y ago
In the same vein, I would warmly recommend Marcus Aurelius notes to anybody wondering what all that and this was/is about.
- kornish 9y ago
  The Gregory Hays translation of Aurelius' Meditations is especially good.
- Shawnecy 9y ago
  Seconded. There's an online version I like (which is also available in markdown and json format) [1]. I can't comment on the translation quality as I'm no expert on the source matter. [1] = http://directingmind.com/meditations http://directingmind.com/meditations
jtth 9y ago
It's really worth reading: http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html
- gloriousduke 9y ago
  It's interesting that Trump became the leader of free world by embodying the opposite of many of these precepts (he'd probably call someone adhering to them a loser or weakling). Epictetus would not be surprised, nor care.
  - Amygaz 9y ago
    I have been thinking to write a book about leadership and use the opposite of what my managers are doing, and I am pretty certain that many on this board could do the same. But then, do I really care? Would that change anything? There are plenty of books andstories providing good leadership examples. There are also plenty of studies supporting the observation than cheaters have an easier time making financial gains, no matter how good or bad they actually are at their job, as long as they can pretend and manipulate the opinion of a group of enablers. I refuse to be a cheater or an enabler. That I do care, and that is something I can do, and have done.
jackhammer2022 9y ago
I like - A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy by William Irvine, provides a good overview of stoicism.
- jacobolus 9y ago
  I was very disappointed in this book after hearing so many positive recommendations. It seemed like a lazy repackaging of famous stoic writings, dumbed down to appeal to a mass pop-science type audience, plus some projection the author’s personal opinions and ideas onto other writers, in a way that felt kind of forced and sloppy. Just go to the primary sources.
fapjacks 9y ago
I first picked up the stoics in my early twenties many years ago when I started going to war, and I can't recommend them enough. What you get out of stoic philosophy will definitely depend on the translation you pick up. Every time you read a new translation, you'll get something new out of it. I would recommend researching the various translations, or even just buying a variety of translations on Amazon because they're so cheap. You can get all of the typical stoic works (Marcus Aurelius, Epictetus, Seneca) for the cost of shipping on Amazon. That is incidentally amazing to me. There's a joke about the world in there somewhere. Anyway, I suggest starting with the translation which you find most digestible. Some of them can be extremely difficult, especially if you've never had to read archaic translations.
- ashark 9y ago
  I did as thorough a comparison of translations of Meditations as I could as a non-Greek-speaker a couple years ago, and settled on Maxwell Staniforth's for being highly readable while also holding much closer to the original than most. The only hardcover available (at that time) was from Folio Society, so a little pricey even used, but I'm pretty sure there's at least one paperback in print. There was, notably, one popular recent translation that tried to give it more of a "quickly-jotted notes" feel to capture the flavor of the original, or so it claimed, implying greater fidelity to the original. In doing so it took far too many liberties with the text—which, to my Greekless eye aided by some online tools, didn't read that way at all, and was typically much wordier than this translation and generally closer to basically any translation but this one. Be wary of anything like that. Just throwing that out there in case anyone finds it useful.
  - literallycancer 9y ago
    I've read this one[1] a while ago, and remember being annoyed at the usage of some words, like 'nature'. Is it different in other translations? Then there's also the irony of the most powerful man in the world writing a book where he recommends the reader to be content with their station and to preserve the status quo. 1 - https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Thoughts_of_the_Emperor_Marcus_Aurelius_Antoninus https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Thoughts_of_the_Emperor_M...
nradam123 9y ago
Enchiridion of Epictetus is the best book I have read on Stoic Philosophy.
- briancleland 9y ago
  Perhaps the most incisive work of philosophy ever written. Short, funny and out of copyright. What's not to like?
hkon 9y ago
Audiobooks from Audible on the subject is also worth a listen. I listen to epictetus/seneca/aurelius at least once a year.
Luc 9y ago
Here's a cool side-by-side comparison of the English translations of the Enchiridion: https://enchiridion.tasuki.org/display:Code:twh,twr,gl,pem,sw/section:meta https://enchiridion.tasuki.org/display:Code:twh,twr,gl,pem,s... Pick your favourite!
- Jun8 9y ago
  Thanks! And for those for which Ancient Greek is "within their power" here's the first sentence τῶν ὄντων τὰ μέν ἐστιν ἐφ᾽ ἡμῖν, τὰ δὲ οὐκ ἐφ᾽ ἡμῖν. from Perseus (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0235%3Atext%3Denc http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%...). Actually you don't have to know anything at all, you can just click on each word and it will show you the meaning. You can then judge yourself which translation you like best. Note, for example that the word control is not used.

63 points by diodorus 9y ago

In the same vein, I would warmly recommend Marcus Aurelius notes to anybody wondering what all that and this was/is about.

kornish 9y ago
The Gregory Hays translation of Aurelius' Meditations is especially good.
Shawnecy 9y ago
Seconded. There's an online version I like (which is also available in markdown and json format) [1]. I can't comment on the translation quality as I'm no expert on the source matter. [1] = http://directingmind.com/meditations http://directingmind.com/meditations

jtth 9y ago

It's really worth reading: http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html

gloriousduke 9y ago
It's interesting that Trump became the leader of free world by embodying the opposite of many of these precepts (he'd probably call someone adhering to them a loser or weakling). Epictetus would not be surprised, nor care.
- Amygaz 9y ago
  I have been thinking to write a book about leadership and use the opposite of what my managers are doing, and I am pretty certain that many on this board could do the same. But then, do I really care? Would that change anything? There are plenty of books andstories providing good leadership examples. There are also plenty of studies supporting the observation than cheaters have an easier time making financial gains, no matter how good or bad they actually are at their job, as long as they can pretend and manipulate the opinion of a group of enablers. I refuse to be a cheater or an enabler. That I do care, and that is something I can do, and have done.

jackhammer2022 9y ago

I like - A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy by William Irvine, provides a good overview of stoicism.

jacobolus 9y ago
I was very disappointed in this book after hearing so many positive recommendations. It seemed like a lazy repackaging of famous stoic writings, dumbed down to appeal to a mass pop-science type audience, plus some projection the author’s personal opinions and ideas onto other writers, in a way that felt kind of forced and sloppy. Just go to the primary sources.

fapjacks 9y ago

I first picked up the stoics in my early twenties many years ago when I started going to war, and I can't recommend them enough. What you get out of stoic philosophy will definitely depend on the translation you pick up. Every time you read a new translation, you'll get something new out of it. I would recommend researching the various translations, or even just buying a variety of translations on Amazon because they're so cheap. You can get all of the typical stoic works (Marcus Aurelius, Epictetus, Seneca) for the cost of shipping on Amazon. That is incidentally amazing to me. There's a joke about the world in there somewhere. Anyway, I suggest starting with the translation which you find most digestible. Some of them can be extremely difficult, especially if you've never had to read archaic translations.

ashark 9y ago
I did as thorough a comparison of translations of Meditations as I could as a non-Greek-speaker a couple years ago, and settled on Maxwell Staniforth's for being highly readable while also holding much closer to the original than most. The only hardcover available (at that time) was from Folio Society, so a little pricey even used, but I'm pretty sure there's at least one paperback in print. There was, notably, one popular recent translation that tried to give it more of a "quickly-jotted notes" feel to capture the flavor of the original, or so it claimed, implying greater fidelity to the original. In doing so it took far too many liberties with the text—which, to my Greekless eye aided by some online tools, didn't read that way at all, and was typically much wordier than this translation and generally closer to basically any translation but this one. Be wary of anything like that. Just throwing that out there in case anyone finds it useful.
- literallycancer 9y ago
  I've read this one[1] a while ago, and remember being annoyed at the usage of some words, like 'nature'. Is it different in other translations? Then there's also the irony of the most powerful man in the world writing a book where he recommends the reader to be content with their station and to preserve the status quo. 1 - https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Thoughts_of_the_Emperor_Marcus_Aurelius_Antoninus https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Thoughts_of_the_Emperor_M...

nradam123 9y ago

Enchiridion of Epictetus is the best book I have read on Stoic Philosophy.

briancleland 9y ago
Perhaps the most incisive work of philosophy ever written. Short, funny and out of copyright. What's not to like?

hkon 9y ago

Audiobooks from Audible on the subject is also worth a listen. I listen to epictetus/seneca/aurelius at least once a year.

Luc 9y ago

Here's a cool side-by-side comparison of the English translations of the Enchiridion: https://enchiridion.tasuki.org/display:Code:twh,twr,gl,pem,sw/section:meta https://enchiridion.tasuki.org/display:Code:twh,twr,gl,pem,s... Pick your favourite!

Jun8 9y ago
Thanks! And for those for which Ancient Greek is "within their power" here's the first sentence τῶν ὄντων τὰ μέν ἐστιν ἐφ᾽ ἡμῖν, τὰ δὲ οὐκ ἐφ᾽ ἡμῖν. from Perseus (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0235%3Atext%3Denc http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%...). Actually you don't have to know anything at all, you can just click on each word and it will show you the meaning. You can then judge yourself which translation you like best. Note, for example that the word control is not used.