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We may (or may not) have a helium shortage[1] and it requires surprising effort to ignite the hydrogen in an airship[2]. Perhaps we should reconsider if our hy

We may (or may not) have a helium shortage[1] and it requires surprising effort to ignite the hydrogen in an airship[2]. Perhaps we should reconsider if our hydrogen ban is warranted for autonomous or remotely piloted airships. Note, the article makes no mention how this airship is piloted, but its primary use is to supply humanitarian relief missions. [1] https://www.wired.com/2016/06/dire-helium-shortage-vastly-inflated/ https://www.wired.com/2016/06/dire-helium-shortage-vastly-in... [2]https://youtu.be/wzW4258oIyg?t=46m56s https://youtu.be/wzW4258oIyg?t=46m56s

peatmoss 9y ago
Geez, that documentary clip is really interesting. Given that lots and lots of incidiary and explosive rounds couldn't take down a Zeppelin, it really seems like the Hindenberg was really just an unfortunate one-off.
- MrFantastic 9y ago
  The Hindenberg had a ~ 60% survival rate. Plane crashes have close to 0% survivorship. It shows the persistence of bad PR and the power of video.
fnj 9y ago
> it requires surprising effort to ignite the hydrogen in an airship They burned like tinder, in large numbers. The following is a list of hydrogen-filled airships which burned. These exclude losses due to enemy action. 1902, *Pax* explodes over Paris 1908, Zeppelin LZ-4 caught fire while moored 1912, *Akron* explodes off Atlantic City 1913, Zeppelin LZ-18 caught fire during test flight 1915, Zeppelin L-4 burned when struck by lightning 1915, SL-6 explodes after takeoff 1915, Zeppelin L-18 burned in hangar 1916, Zeppelin L-6 burned when being inflated 1918, 4 Zeppelins and one other burned in mass hangar fire 1918, Zeppelin L-59 explodes during flight 1919, US Navy blimp C-8 explodes while landing 1919, British blimp N.S.11 burned in flight 1919, US blimp *Wingfoot Express* burned over Chicago 1920, US Navy blimp D-1 burned at base 1921, US Navy blimp C-3 burned at Hampton Roads, VA 1921, British rigid airship R.38 broke in half and burned in mid-air 1921, US Navy blimps D-6 and C-10 burned in hangar fire 1922, US Army *Roma* struck power lines and burned 1922, US Army blimp C-2 burned while exiting hangar 1923, French Navy *Dixmude* struck by lightning and burned in flight 1930, British rigid airship R.101 struck hillside during storm and burned 1934 Soviet blimps V4, V5, and V7 all burned in a hangar fire 1935, Soviet blimp V7-bis struck a powerline and burned 1937, Zeppelin *Hindenburg* caught fire due to unknown cause and burned [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airship_accidents [1] http://www.zeppelinhistory.com/zeppelin-facts/airship-accidents/
- kmm 9y ago
  So less than one incident per year, most with a low amount of casualties, on what I assume was quite a big population of airships. And that is without modern technology, because we've made some progress in flame retardant materials I find that rather makes the case of bringing back hydrogen filled airships.
  - CommieBobDole 9y ago
    > what I assume was quite a big population of airships That might be a bad assumption. Hard to find numbers for all producers but based on the various lists of airships (links below), it looks like total number of airships produced was probably in the "few hundred" range, and only a small portion of those were in use at any given time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Zeppelins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Zeppelins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airships_of_the_United_States_Navy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airships_of_the_United... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sch%C3%BCtte-Lanz_airships https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sch%C3%BCtte-Lanz_airs...
- BatFastard 9y ago
  Looks like biggest risk the the hanger! One would hope we could avoid such risks with today's level of technology.
nbanks 9y ago
Since autonomous airships still can still ignite as they're loading or unloading, it may be worth filling them with helium, but I do think using hydrogen may be more appropriate for Project Loon. Hydrogen could still be viable as long as the airship is designed so people won't be hurt even if it does ignite. For example, the cargo could be designed to have a low terminal velocity or a ballistic parachutes could be used.

peatmoss 9y ago

Geez, that documentary clip is really interesting. Given that lots and lots of incidiary and explosive rounds couldn't take down a Zeppelin, it really seems like the Hindenberg was really just an unfortunate one-off.

MrFantastic 9y ago
The Hindenberg had a ~ 60% survival rate. Plane crashes have close to 0% survivorship. It shows the persistence of bad PR and the power of video.

fnj 9y ago

> it requires surprising effort to ignite the hydrogen in an airship They burned like tinder, in large numbers. The following is a list of hydrogen-filled airships which burned. These exclude losses due to enemy action. 1902, *Pax* explodes over Paris 1908, Zeppelin LZ-4 caught fire while moored 1912, *Akron* explodes off Atlantic City 1913, Zeppelin LZ-18 caught fire during test flight 1915, Zeppelin L-4 burned when struck by lightning 1915, SL-6 explodes after takeoff 1915, Zeppelin L-18 burned in hangar 1916, Zeppelin L-6 burned when being inflated 1918, 4 Zeppelins and one other burned in mass hangar fire 1918, Zeppelin L-59 explodes during flight 1919, US Navy blimp C-8 explodes while landing 1919, British blimp N.S.11 burned in flight 1919, US blimp *Wingfoot Express* burned over Chicago 1920, US Navy blimp D-1 burned at base 1921, US Navy blimp C-3 burned at Hampton Roads, VA 1921, British rigid airship R.38 broke in half and burned in mid-air 1921, US Navy blimps D-6 and C-10 burned in hangar fire 1922, US Army *Roma* struck power lines and burned 1922, US Army blimp C-2 burned while exiting hangar 1923, French Navy *Dixmude* struck by lightning and burned in flight 1930, British rigid airship R.101 struck hillside during storm and burned 1934 Soviet blimps V4, V5, and V7 all burned in a hangar fire 1935, Soviet blimp V7-bis struck a powerline and burned 1937, Zeppelin *Hindenburg* caught fire due to unknown cause and burned [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airship_accidents [1] http://www.zeppelinhistory.com/zeppelin-facts/airship-accidents/

kmm 9y ago
So less than one incident per year, most with a low amount of casualties, on what I assume was quite a big population of airships. And that is without modern technology, because we've made some progress in flame retardant materials I find that rather makes the case of bringing back hydrogen filled airships.
- CommieBobDole 9y ago
  > what I assume was quite a big population of airships That might be a bad assumption. Hard to find numbers for all producers but based on the various lists of airships (links below), it looks like total number of airships produced was probably in the "few hundred" range, and only a small portion of those were in use at any given time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Zeppelins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Zeppelins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airships_of_the_United_States_Navy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airships_of_the_United... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sch%C3%BCtte-Lanz_airships https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sch%C3%BCtte-Lanz_airs...
BatFastard 9y ago
Looks like biggest risk the the hanger! One would hope we could avoid such risks with today's level of technology.

nbanks 9y ago

Since autonomous airships still can still ignite as they're loading or unloading, it may be worth filling them with helium, but I do think using hydrogen may be more appropriate for Project Loon. Hydrogen could still be viable as long as the airship is designed so people won't be hurt even if it does ignite. For example, the cargo could be designed to have a low terminal velocity or a ballistic parachutes could be used.