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People are interested, they're just not interested in working towards it or giving up things for it. Fresco paints a gloomy picture of the now and the future,

People are interested, they're just not interested in working towards it or giving up things for it. Fresco paints a gloomy picture of the now and the future, but the facts are that "on average", humans are living better lives than they ever have. This progress has not yet stopped. Hence, Fresco predicts we need to wait for the next "bust".

staticelf 9y ago
That assumes that there will be people remembering the venus project or even have the resources to fight for it at the correct time. Also, it assumes that humanity will survive the climate changes that are due. I think we have taught ourselves that we rather suffer and keep things as they are rather than actually improving them in a radical way like in trying out new economic models.
- xenu101 9y ago
  He believed himself that the chances are slim. We may well be headed for the next dark ages. I doubt we're going extinct though, unless we're literally turning this planet into Venus (put somewhat intended).
  - BuckRogers 9y ago
    The Venus Project has inspired me to extend on their ideas in certain ways, but commit myself to the idea in general. If I ever have vast sums of money like Bill Gates, I'll use it to start something small-scale where people can live outside of current nation-states and demonstrate to the world how life can be if they choose. I think it's just a matter of this, demonstration. It won't attract everyone, there's a lot of very confused people in a lot of nations who think their way of life can't be topped (especially the US). The likelihood of 1 person like me who agrees with Fresco's vision netting billions of dollars to begin is higher than a bunch of people on their iPhones suddenly agreeing to the idea in an awakening. It can happen, without a nuclear holocaust "awakening" too. Just need the Elon Musk of the Venus Project to start small. Jacque did a lot of hard work to get the idea out there.
JackFr 9y ago
It's not just "on average", people are materially better off today than at any other period in history, at all levels. The poorest people today are better off than the poorest people at any previous era.
- xkarga00 9y ago
  That's the problem, we are only _materially_ better. It is sad we still cannot figure that out.
  - BuckRogers 9y ago
    Yup you nailed it. In many ways like work-life balance, times are worse than the middle ages. Also material betterment doesn't scale, we can't focus on material betterment for all because until we figure out fusion and get our own Dyson Sphere going, we have finite resources.
    - cholantesh 9y ago
      >In many ways like work-life balance, times are worse than the middle ages. Is this actually established? It's my understanding that the work-leisure dichotomy didn't really exist in medieval Europe. Also, considering how much of the fruit of your labour ended up supporting local and distant aristocracy, I can't imagine mental health being particularly high for a lot of people.
      - goodJobWalrus 9y ago
        Anthropologists seem to agree* that hunter-gatherers (our ancestors, but also ones living in modern times) worked a little less than 8 hours a day. * For source, I've seen Yuval Noah Harari and Peter Gray writing about it.
        ue_ 9y ago
        Although I don't think it's very wise to say we should try to reach for the ideal of the hunter-gatherer society, but it's undeniable that the combination of (i) overproduction and (ii) machinery being used for short-term profit rather than meaning people have to work less is causing a lot of time used working when it could, in a society not driven by profit, be used for various kinds of fulfillment and sharpening one's intellectual faculties. As Oscar Wilde put it: Now and then, in the course of the century, a great man of science, like Darwin; a great poet, like Keats; a fine critical spirit, like M. Renan; a supreme artist, like Flaubert, has been able to isolate himself, to keep himself out of reach of the clamorous claims of others, to stand ‘under the shelter of the wall,’ as Plato puts it, and so to realise the perfection of what was in him, to his own incomparable gain, and to the incomparable and lasting gain of the whole world. These, however, are exceptions. The majority of people spoil their lives by an unhealthy and exaggerated altruism – are forced, indeed, so to spoil them. They find themselves surrounded by hideous poverty, by hideous ugliness, by hideous starvation.

staticelf 9y ago

That assumes that there will be people remembering the venus project or even have the resources to fight for it at the correct time. Also, it assumes that humanity will survive the climate changes that are due. I think we have taught ourselves that we rather suffer and keep things as they are rather than actually improving them in a radical way like in trying out new economic models.

xenu101 9y ago
He believed himself that the chances are slim. We may well be headed for the next dark ages. I doubt we're going extinct though, unless we're literally turning this planet into Venus (put somewhat intended).
- BuckRogers 9y ago
  The Venus Project has inspired me to extend on their ideas in certain ways, but commit myself to the idea in general. If I ever have vast sums of money like Bill Gates, I'll use it to start something small-scale where people can live outside of current nation-states and demonstrate to the world how life can be if they choose. I think it's just a matter of this, demonstration. It won't attract everyone, there's a lot of very confused people in a lot of nations who think their way of life can't be topped (especially the US). The likelihood of 1 person like me who agrees with Fresco's vision netting billions of dollars to begin is higher than a bunch of people on their iPhones suddenly agreeing to the idea in an awakening. It can happen, without a nuclear holocaust "awakening" too. Just need the Elon Musk of the Venus Project to start small. Jacque did a lot of hard work to get the idea out there.

JackFr 9y ago

It's not just "on average", people are materially better off today than at any other period in history, at all levels. The poorest people today are better off than the poorest people at any previous era.

xkarga00 9y ago
That's the problem, we are only _materially_ better. It is sad we still cannot figure that out.
- BuckRogers 9y ago
  Yup you nailed it. In many ways like work-life balance, times are worse than the middle ages. Also material betterment doesn't scale, we can't focus on material betterment for all because until we figure out fusion and get our own Dyson Sphere going, we have finite resources.
  - cholantesh 9y ago
    >In many ways like work-life balance, times are worse than the middle ages. Is this actually established? It's my understanding that the work-leisure dichotomy didn't really exist in medieval Europe. Also, considering how much of the fruit of your labour ended up supporting local and distant aristocracy, I can't imagine mental health being particularly high for a lot of people.
    - goodJobWalrus 9y ago
      Anthropologists seem to agree* that hunter-gatherers (our ancestors, but also ones living in modern times) worked a little less than 8 hours a day. * For source, I've seen Yuval Noah Harari and Peter Gray writing about it.
      - ue_ 9y ago
        Although I don't think it's very wise to say we should try to reach for the ideal of the hunter-gatherer society, but it's undeniable that the combination of (i) overproduction and (ii) machinery being used for short-term profit rather than meaning people have to work less is causing a lot of time used working when it could, in a society not driven by profit, be used for various kinds of fulfillment and sharpening one's intellectual faculties. As Oscar Wilde put it: Now and then, in the course of the century, a great man of science, like Darwin; a great poet, like Keats; a fine critical spirit, like M. Renan; a supreme artist, like Flaubert, has been able to isolate himself, to keep himself out of reach of the clamorous claims of others, to stand ‘under the shelter of the wall,’ as Plato puts it, and so to realise the perfection of what was in him, to his own incomparable gain, and to the incomparable and lasting gain of the whole world. These, however, are exceptions. The majority of people spoil their lives by an unhealthy and exaggerated altruism – are forced, indeed, so to spoil them. They find themselves surrounded by hideous poverty, by hideous ugliness, by hideous starvation.