5 ms·

Utah firing squad death announced on Twitter

16 points by Concours 16y ago

tomjen3 16y ago
Interesting, but does anybody know why they are all so mad that he was shot (as opposed to killed with a lethal injection)? It just seems that with shooting, we at least know what will happen and how not to fuck it up.
- rgrieselhuber 16y ago
  Part of it is probably the fact that he was still moving after being shot five times. Lethal injection would most likely hurt less.
  - patrickk 16y ago
    I thought the way it was done was that 4 of the 5 firing squad members fire blanks? In fact Wikipedia mentions that this is the case in Ronnie Lee Gardner's execution in particular: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_by_firing_squad#Blank_cartridge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_by_firing_squad#Blank...
    - rgrieselhuber 16y ago
      The story I read said that only one of the bullets was a blank, but the pattern you mention is the one I have also heard of more often. When I think about it though, that would be even more risky as many people have survived single gunshot wounds, at least for a little while.
      - patrickk 16y ago
        Actually I did a little more reading (offline, no link unfortunately) and apparently in this execution four of the five firing squad members were firing live rounds, and one fired a blank. The reasoning for this is that each person can say "well, at least there's a chance that I fired the blank". Over time, each man will believe he fired the blank, to console himself. The weakness in this concept is that an experienced marksman will be able to tell the difference between a live round and a blank (more recoil from a live round).
- hugh3 16y ago
  I think there's always been a drive to make executions look less "barbaric" by using the most technologically advanced methods. Right now that's lethal injection (you'll note it's not just a syringe of poison, but a fancy machine with lots of flashing lights that administers the poison). Before that it was the electric chair, which seemed very high-tech at the time but was probably much crueler than most of the older methods. So a firing squad seems like a step back to a more barbaric age. Personally I think I'd prefer death by firing squad to death by lethal injection. Staring down the barrels of a bunch of rifles sounds better to me than being poisoned in my sleep.
hugh3 16y ago
Incidentally, does anyone know why in the US system the governor is given the ability to stop an execution? I suppose it's the same thing as the ability of the President to grant pardons. But what's the logic behind giving the executive branch the ability to overrule the judicial branch in these sorts of circumstances?
- w1ntermute 16y ago
  Checks and balances, though I feel this particular check/balance is a bad one.
- astine 16y ago
  I don't believe this is the case in every state, they each have their own constitution. As w1ntermute says, it has to do with checks and balances. Personally, I don't believe that any single branch of government should have final say on the life of an individual. It makes sense that the executive be given the task of second guessing this instance as the executive is the branch actually tasked with enforcing the laws.
  - sliverstorm 16y ago
    And, keep in mind, he only has the right to pardon. Not to execute, only to preserve life. In other words, he has the power to counter the courts, but not replace them. There is definitely a precedent for this method, which seems to work pretty well; the presidential pardon, as you mentioned, and the presidential veto.
- robin_reala 16y ago
  I think the more pressing concern is why, in the US system, the government has the right to execute a person at all.
  - axod 16y ago
    It'll be that way until the US get rid of its guns, stop fighting the world and get some human rights in place... Don't count on that happening for a few hundred years yet though.
BenoitEssiambre 16y ago
Wow plus the tweet itself has a tone of religious extremism with an implied consent from god as a justification for an atrocity. I'm not even sure I'm against the death penalty but doing it in the manner of the Taliban is sick.
- CoachRufus87 16y ago
  i wouldn't place this in the same realm as the Taliban (since they kill anyone)
- tzs 16y ago
  Where was there a tone of religious extremism?
- astine 16y ago
  I didn't get the impression that Governor Shurtleff gave the go ahead out of religious conviction at all. The only religious element was a contract between the assumed mercy of God and the convict's apparent lack thereof.
  - mattmillr 16y ago
    Agreed. Since "May God have mercy on his soul" is pretty much boilerplate language for executions, we should look at the difference in what Shurtleff says. When he writes, "May God grant him the mercy he denied his victims," the emphasis is on Garner's crime. The "May God grant him the mercy..." part is more likely a cultural artifact than religious extremism.
    - sliverstorm 16y ago
      Same as how our money has 'In God We Trust' written on it. If you're to get up in arms about simple phrases like that, better start objecting to US currency too.
      - hugh3 16y ago
        I do object to US currency for having that phrase, since that's an endorsement of religion by the Government itself. I don't object to the governor's comments, which were made by the Governor as an individual.
detcader 16y ago
So the Right has found another medium with which to elicit irrational emotional excitement like oh-so-many reality TV shows from its inbred voterbase... news?

16 points by Concours 16y ago

Interesting, but does anybody know why they are all so mad that he was shot (as opposed to killed with a lethal injection)? It just seems that with shooting, we at least know what will happen and how not to fuck it up.

rgrieselhuber 16y ago
Part of it is probably the fact that he was still moving after being shot five times. Lethal injection would most likely hurt less.
- patrickk 16y ago
  I thought the way it was done was that 4 of the 5 firing squad members fire blanks? In fact Wikipedia mentions that this is the case in Ronnie Lee Gardner's execution in particular: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_by_firing_squad#Blank_cartridge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_by_firing_squad#Blank...
  - rgrieselhuber 16y ago
    The story I read said that only one of the bullets was a blank, but the pattern you mention is the one I have also heard of more often. When I think about it though, that would be even more risky as many people have survived single gunshot wounds, at least for a little while.
    - patrickk 16y ago
      Actually I did a little more reading (offline, no link unfortunately) and apparently in this execution four of the five firing squad members were firing live rounds, and one fired a blank. The reasoning for this is that each person can say "well, at least there's a chance that I fired the blank". Over time, each man will believe he fired the blank, to console himself. The weakness in this concept is that an experienced marksman will be able to tell the difference between a live round and a blank (more recoil from a live round).
hugh3 16y ago
I think there's always been a drive to make executions look less "barbaric" by using the most technologically advanced methods. Right now that's lethal injection (you'll note it's not just a syringe of poison, but a fancy machine with lots of flashing lights that administers the poison). Before that it was the electric chair, which seemed very high-tech at the time but was probably much crueler than most of the older methods. So a firing squad seems like a step back to a more barbaric age. Personally I think I'd prefer death by firing squad to death by lethal injection. Staring down the barrels of a bunch of rifles sounds better to me than being poisoned in my sleep.

hugh3 16y ago

Incidentally, does anyone know why in the US system the governor is given the ability to stop an execution? I suppose it's the same thing as the ability of the President to grant pardons. But what's the logic behind giving the executive branch the ability to overrule the judicial branch in these sorts of circumstances?

w1ntermute 16y ago
Checks and balances, though I feel this particular check/balance is a bad one.
astine 16y ago
I don't believe this is the case in every state, they each have their own constitution. As w1ntermute says, it has to do with checks and balances. Personally, I don't believe that any single branch of government should have final say on the life of an individual. It makes sense that the executive be given the task of second guessing this instance as the executive is the branch actually tasked with enforcing the laws.
- sliverstorm 16y ago
  And, keep in mind, he only has the right to pardon. Not to execute, only to preserve life. In other words, he has the power to counter the courts, but not replace them. There is definitely a precedent for this method, which seems to work pretty well; the presidential pardon, as you mentioned, and the presidential veto.
robin_reala 16y ago
I think the more pressing concern is why, in the US system, the government has the right to execute a person at all.
- axod 16y ago
  It'll be that way until the US get rid of its guns, stop fighting the world and get some human rights in place... Don't count on that happening for a few hundred years yet though.

BenoitEssiambre 16y ago

Wow plus the tweet itself has a tone of religious extremism with an implied consent from god as a justification for an atrocity. I'm not even sure I'm against the death penalty but doing it in the manner of the Taliban is sick.

CoachRufus87 16y ago
i wouldn't place this in the same realm as the Taliban (since they kill anyone)
tzs 16y ago
Where was there a tone of religious extremism?
astine 16y ago
I didn't get the impression that Governor Shurtleff gave the go ahead out of religious conviction at all. The only religious element was a contract between the assumed mercy of God and the convict's apparent lack thereof.
- mattmillr 16y ago
  Agreed. Since "May God have mercy on his soul" is pretty much boilerplate language for executions, we should look at the difference in what Shurtleff says. When he writes, "May God grant him the mercy he denied his victims," the emphasis is on Garner's crime. The "May God grant him the mercy..." part is more likely a cultural artifact than religious extremism.
  - sliverstorm 16y ago
    Same as how our money has 'In God We Trust' written on it. If you're to get up in arms about simple phrases like that, better start objecting to US currency too.
    - hugh3 16y ago
      I do object to US currency for having that phrase, since that's an endorsement of religion by the Government itself. I don't object to the governor's comments, which were made by the Governor as an individual.

detcader 16y ago

So the Right has found another medium with which to elicit irrational emotional excitement like oh-so-many reality TV shows from its inbred voterbase... news?