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to be clear, I don't believe the moral panic has set in at private employers yet in the way it has in the university, but I see more and more steps in that dire

to be clear, I don't believe the moral panic has set in at private employers yet in the way it has in the university, but I see more and more steps in that direction every day and the YAG mailing list is too close for comfort, in my opinion. It's one moderator slip-up away from becoming noxious.

joshuamorton 9y ago
As a very recent graduate, my same comments apply, more or less, to universities.
- metaphorm 9y ago
  as someone with more years and perspective than a very recent graduate, I would encourage you to consider your critics more seriously and reflect on why so many people are deeply disturbed by what is going on in the academy right now.
  - joshuamorton 9y ago
    >as someone with more years and perspective Wasn't it you who said we should speak in good faith. I prefer not to be patronized. I asked you a question, which applied equally to universities as workplaces, that could be summed up as "As someone who has recently been at a university, and is currently in a workplace, I am aware of many more (perhaps orders of magnitude more) instances of abuse that goes unreported or unpunished as compared to instances of people being falsely accused of things. Given that, why should I take your concerns seriously, other than your wisdom and perspective?" You avoided it. Its difficult to take your concerns seriously when you avoid explaining them. Or in other words, I have anecdotal evidence that a lot of harassment goes unreported, and similarly anecdotal evidence that relatively few accusations are false ones, and anecdotal evidence that in many cases, being forced out or punished for perceived harassment won't actually have a lasting negative impact, and certainly won't be life-ruining. Actual data tends to agree with me. If, as I believe, for every 1 false accusation of something, 10 instances of that thing go unreported, why should I stand for focussing resources on providing additional (and perhaps unnecessary) protections to the 1, when at the same time there are 10 victims, and perhaps 10 assailants, who go without justice and punishment, respectively?

joshuamorton 9y ago

As a very recent graduate, my same comments apply, more or less, to universities.

metaphorm 9y ago
as someone with more years and perspective than a very recent graduate, I would encourage you to consider your critics more seriously and reflect on why so many people are deeply disturbed by what is going on in the academy right now.
- joshuamorton 9y ago
  >as someone with more years and perspective Wasn't it you who said we should speak in good faith. I prefer not to be patronized. I asked you a question, which applied equally to universities as workplaces, that could be summed up as "As someone who has recently been at a university, and is currently in a workplace, I am aware of many more (perhaps orders of magnitude more) instances of abuse that goes unreported or unpunished as compared to instances of people being falsely accused of things. Given that, why should I take your concerns seriously, other than your wisdom and perspective?" You avoided it. Its difficult to take your concerns seriously when you avoid explaining them. Or in other words, I have anecdotal evidence that a lot of harassment goes unreported, and similarly anecdotal evidence that relatively few accusations are false ones, and anecdotal evidence that in many cases, being forced out or punished for perceived harassment won't actually have a lasting negative impact, and certainly won't be life-ruining. Actual data tends to agree with me. If, as I believe, for every 1 false accusation of something, 10 instances of that thing go unreported, why should I stand for focussing resources on providing additional (and perhaps unnecessary) protections to the 1, when at the same time there are 10 victims, and perhaps 10 assailants, who go without justice and punishment, respectively?