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It's ok to be accommodating as long as you have learned to be introspective. We all have demands of our own time and money. Introspective accommodating people a

It's ok to be accommodating as long as you have learned to be introspective. We all have demands of our own time and money. Introspective accommodating people are able to help others in a generous way while protecting the time and resources they need to help themselves. It's a difficult balance to achieve. Through experience, I've come to believe that this holds true in long-term personal relationships, too. While many will tell you that compromise is the key to a successful marriage, I think that standing up for yourself and who you need to be usually is more important. There's a needle on the gauge of life that experiences pressure to move from both directions. When you are too accommodating or compromise unequally, the needle moves towards you and establishes a new norm for expected behavior. Your job should be to push back just enough to keep the needle balanced at a point where you retain a full sense of self and the space within which to exercise it. That requires a strong sense of introspection and can take years of adult life to develop.

theoh 9y ago
"Introspection" is not usually associated with standing up for yourself or your needs. It just means looking inward, which does require that you not be run off your feet taking care of others, but I've never heard it used to refer to the tactics necessary to acquire that space. "Self-advocacy" is one phrase that might be close. Or assertiveness?
- nrjames 9y ago
  In my experience, it is easier to advocate outwardly for yourself than it is to look inward and evaluate what you actually need from yourself in order to be happy. In that sense, I meant introspection. I feel like the more able I am to understand the needs and desires that drive my self-advocacy, the more effectively I can find balance in life.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
okreallywtf 9y ago
I agree, I don't think it has to be an either-or type of thing. I started out being too accommodating but have gradually learned to say no more and more. Sometimes it surprises people who are used to you being overly accommodating, but if you have enough self-respect and respect your own time the surprise usually doesn't last and typically results in . Someone who is too used to you being accommodating might escalate the situation and try to challenge you but that hasn't happened to me. My new formula is to be accommodating when it doesn't negatively affect me and if it does, make it clear that some request will be effort and I'll have to consider whether I can accommodate it (which assumes of course that it isn't an official duty). Its not about trying to force people to respect me, if I respect myself enough (for valid reasons, this doesn't excuse baseless bravado or anything) it doesn't really matter, I won't allow myself to be taken advantage of and generally that means the same thing. In a relationship (new or old) it can be as simple as when asked to do something that isn't something you would be expected to do just asking more questions about the thing. When exactly is it? How long is it going to take? You aren't being a dick by trying to factor some request into your own time, you have other things you want or need to do and 99% of the time people will respect that. Just following a request up with questions about the specifics of the request shows more self-respect that immediately being like "sure I can do that, when is it and where?", which says that you'll work around their request rather than the other way around. I've even applied this to how I drive - I used to be much more concerned with people who were in a Great Hurry in the left lane, I would find a spot to get into the right lane even if I had to slow down to do so (usually getting me stuck behind someone who then somehow seems to be going 10mph slower than I even realized). I did this partly out of politeness and knowing how frustrating it can be to be stuck behind people, but a fair percentage of the time the person in a hurry is going 20mph+ over the speed limit and I'm probably already going 10-15 and I am passing people on the right at a fair clip and chances are there isn't even much space ahead to take up. I used to be stressed by these situations when I was less secure but now I'm not going to put myself out and dodge in and out of traffic for someone who is driving unreasonably and it doesn't stress me out to have someone raging behind me because chances are that person is going to be raging at someone no matter what, might as well be me. I'll get over for them when its safe and convenient and let them by but not at my own expense. I know this is kind of a trivial situation but it was kind of a big realization for me when I got over being stressed out by having other people be displeased with me.
nostrademons 9y ago
You want to compromise on the stuff that other people find important and hold fast on the stuff that you find important. Goes for both relationships, friends, teammates, and business associates. Most people come into the world assuming that their desires are everybody's desires. We live life by the Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." This obscures that there's often a wide variety in the things we would like others to do unto us, and that assuming everybody wants what you wants often leads us to do exactly what they don't want. It was a revelation when my therapist told me "You need to show love in the ways that other people want to receive it, not the way you want to send it." It hadn't really occurred to me before then that things I considered really inconsequential - checking if she got home okay, or leaving the porch light on for her at night - might really matter to my girlfriend (now wife), or that things that I considered really important - like listening to my latest theory on reality, or showing enthusiasm when I show her my latest product demo - might be considered inconsequential by her. Many people have this intuitive idea that service & favors are a zero-sum game, but in actuality, some actions cost you a lot less than the recipient benefits from them, and some cost you a lot more than the recipient cares. It makes a lot of sense to perform favors that are cheap for you but benefit the recipient a lot. It's on you to figure out how much the recipient cares and how much time & energy you can spare for them.
- minikites 9y ago
  >It was a revelation when my therapist told me "You need to show love in the ways that other people want to receive it, not the way you want to send it." I'm curious, was it along the lines of this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Five_Love_Languages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Five_Love_Languages
  - nostrademons 9y ago
    Similar - you can bet that most therapists have read that and incorporate it into their practice. My wife and I are fortunate enough to share the same primary love language, but like with most couples, there are a bunch of little things where we differ. This is why they say communication is key in a relationship - if you're not communicating, you never learn that the other person might come into the relationship with subtly different values or experiences, and then when they do things that make you feel ignored or hurt, you attribute it to malice rather than ignorance.
abandonliberty 9y ago
Accommodation and compromise are zero sum. You're leaving a lot on the table if that's the extent of your paradigm. Here's a sample model: http://righttojoy.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Assertive-vs-Cooperative-Graph1-e1292213378928.jpg http://righttojoy.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Assertive-v... Collaboration is value-generating. It takes more effort and yields more return. Rather than 'pushing back' you work together to understand what is important to each party and find ways to meet those needs. This must be built on an equal foundation - your needle in the middle - for most effective good-faith negotiation. Your partner needs to be reasonably intelligent and reasonable for this to work. You need to teach people what's important to you, rather than expecting them to read your mind. Highly recommend the negotiation book 'Getting to Yes' for a thorough treatment of these concepts.
- noja 9y ago
  How do you collaborate on something like a technical decision which is black or white?
  - inimino 9y ago
    How do know there is such a thing as a technical decision which is black or white?
  - groby_b 9y ago
    If your technical decisions are black or white, you work on trivial problems - collaborate to tackle a bigger issue where you need to consider tradeoffs.
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    You talk about it. Either you reach a decision you both agree on or you don't. In the latter case, it's usually more important to keep the ship sailing than to have it your way, so one of you will have to give up. If you both can't, agree on a fair procedure - like asking a third party or throwing a coin - and stick with the answer. If you disagree with the decision, you can always say your disagreement explicitly and refuse to take responsibility for it, but that's totally orthogonal to supporting it when the decision has been made.
incongruity 9y ago
I'd argue being able to know what you need is actually the critical part of the marriage – standing up for it is only one route – but it's the self awareness (or lack thereof) that seems to drive so many relationships (marriage and business) into the ditch. So, I think your point really was spot on. Introspection is critical.
astockwell 9y ago
Indeed, as Mark Manson puts it[1]: "For a relationship to be healthy, both parties need to be able to both give and receive rejection". Eye-opening for me, and explained many of the unhealthy relationships in my life (including employee-employer dynamics). [1] https://markmanson.net/books/subtle-art https://markmanson.net/books/subtle-art (quasi-NSFW)
- TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
  I am at work, but I don't give a fuck. This is the best thing I've read for a long time: "Because when we give too many fucks, when we choose to give a fuck about everything, then we feel as though we are perpetually entitled to feel comfortable and happy at all times, that’s when life fucks us."[1] 1. https://markmanson.net/not-giving-a-fuck https://markmanson.net/not-giving-a-fuck
  - Bakary 9y ago
    Isn't that just repackaged Stoicism?
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - belenos46 9y ago
      And I choose to feel okay about that.
      - Bakary 9y ago
        Come to think about it, it would be ironic if you didn't!
- toothbrush 9y ago
  Very strange! I recently read a similarly-titled book by a certain Sarah Knight! I think my friend meant to recommend Manson's book, and i ended up ordering and reading Knight's months ago, and only figured out now that there might have been a miscommunication. Haha, thanks HN.
bobbington 9y ago
> While many will tell you that compromise is the key to a successful marriage, I think that standing up for yourself and who you need to be usually is more important. I think you may be taking about a situation in which there is compliance but not actual compromise. Compromise involves both coming to middle ground, whereas compliance meets the needs of one at the expense of another. So I think the saying actually supports what you say.

theoh 9y ago

"Introspection" is not usually associated with standing up for yourself or your needs. It just means looking inward, which does require that you not be run off your feet taking care of others, but I've never heard it used to refer to the tactics necessary to acquire that space. "Self-advocacy" is one phrase that might be close. Or assertiveness?

nrjames 9y ago
In my experience, it is easier to advocate outwardly for yourself than it is to look inward and evaluate what you actually need from yourself in order to be happy. In that sense, I meant introspection. I feel like the more able I am to understand the needs and desires that drive my self-advocacy, the more effectively I can find balance in life.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

okreallywtf 9y ago

I agree, I don't think it has to be an either-or type of thing. I started out being too accommodating but have gradually learned to say no more and more. Sometimes it surprises people who are used to you being overly accommodating, but if you have enough self-respect and respect your own time the surprise usually doesn't last and typically results in . Someone who is too used to you being accommodating might escalate the situation and try to challenge you but that hasn't happened to me. My new formula is to be accommodating when it doesn't negatively affect me and if it does, make it clear that some request will be effort and I'll have to consider whether I can accommodate it (which assumes of course that it isn't an official duty). Its not about trying to force people to respect me, if I respect myself enough (for valid reasons, this doesn't excuse baseless bravado or anything) it doesn't really matter, I won't allow myself to be taken advantage of and generally that means the same thing. In a relationship (new or old) it can be as simple as when asked to do something that isn't something you would be expected to do just asking more questions about the thing. When exactly is it? How long is it going to take? You aren't being a dick by trying to factor some request into your own time, you have other things you want or need to do and 99% of the time people will respect that. Just following a request up with questions about the specifics of the request shows more self-respect that immediately being like "sure I can do that, when is it and where?", which says that you'll work around their request rather than the other way around. I've even applied this to how I drive - I used to be much more concerned with people who were in a Great Hurry in the left lane, I would find a spot to get into the right lane even if I had to slow down to do so (usually getting me stuck behind someone who then somehow seems to be going 10mph slower than I even realized). I did this partly out of politeness and knowing how frustrating it can be to be stuck behind people, but a fair percentage of the time the person in a hurry is going 20mph+ over the speed limit and I'm probably already going 10-15 and I am passing people on the right at a fair clip and chances are there isn't even much space ahead to take up. I used to be stressed by these situations when I was less secure but now I'm not going to put myself out and dodge in and out of traffic for someone who is driving unreasonably and it doesn't stress me out to have someone raging behind me because chances are that person is going to be raging at someone no matter what, might as well be me. I'll get over for them when its safe and convenient and let them by but not at my own expense. I know this is kind of a trivial situation but it was kind of a big realization for me when I got over being stressed out by having other people be displeased with me.

nostrademons 9y ago

You want to compromise on the stuff that other people find important and hold fast on the stuff that you find important. Goes for both relationships, friends, teammates, and business associates. Most people come into the world assuming that their desires are everybody's desires. We live life by the Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." This obscures that there's often a wide variety in the things we would like others to do unto us, and that assuming everybody wants what you wants often leads us to do exactly what they don't want. It was a revelation when my therapist told me "You need to show love in the ways that other people want to receive it, not the way you want to send it." It hadn't really occurred to me before then that things I considered really inconsequential - checking if she got home okay, or leaving the porch light on for her at night - might really matter to my girlfriend (now wife), or that things that I considered really important - like listening to my latest theory on reality, or showing enthusiasm when I show her my latest product demo - might be considered inconsequential by her. Many people have this intuitive idea that service & favors are a zero-sum game, but in actuality, some actions cost you a lot less than the recipient benefits from them, and some cost you a lot more than the recipient cares. It makes a lot of sense to perform favors that are cheap for you but benefit the recipient a lot. It's on you to figure out how much the recipient cares and how much time & energy you can spare for them.

minikites 9y ago
>It was a revelation when my therapist told me "You need to show love in the ways that other people want to receive it, not the way you want to send it." I'm curious, was it along the lines of this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Five_Love_Languages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Five_Love_Languages
- nostrademons 9y ago
  Similar - you can bet that most therapists have read that and incorporate it into their practice. My wife and I are fortunate enough to share the same primary love language, but like with most couples, there are a bunch of little things where we differ. This is why they say communication is key in a relationship - if you're not communicating, you never learn that the other person might come into the relationship with subtly different values or experiences, and then when they do things that make you feel ignored or hurt, you attribute it to malice rather than ignorance.

abandonliberty 9y ago

Accommodation and compromise are zero sum. You're leaving a lot on the table if that's the extent of your paradigm. Here's a sample model: http://righttojoy.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Assertive-vs-Cooperative-Graph1-e1292213378928.jpg http://righttojoy.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Assertive-v... Collaboration is value-generating. It takes more effort and yields more return. Rather than 'pushing back' you work together to understand what is important to each party and find ways to meet those needs. This must be built on an equal foundation - your needle in the middle - for most effective good-faith negotiation. Your partner needs to be reasonably intelligent and reasonable for this to work. You need to teach people what's important to you, rather than expecting them to read your mind. Highly recommend the negotiation book 'Getting to Yes' for a thorough treatment of these concepts.

noja 9y ago
How do you collaborate on something like a technical decision which is black or white?
- inimino 9y ago
  How do know there is such a thing as a technical decision which is black or white?
- groby_b 9y ago
  If your technical decisions are black or white, you work on trivial problems - collaborate to tackle a bigger issue where you need to consider tradeoffs.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  You talk about it. Either you reach a decision you both agree on or you don't. In the latter case, it's usually more important to keep the ship sailing than to have it your way, so one of you will have to give up. If you both can't, agree on a fair procedure - like asking a third party or throwing a coin - and stick with the answer. If you disagree with the decision, you can always say your disagreement explicitly and refuse to take responsibility for it, but that's totally orthogonal to supporting it when the decision has been made.

incongruity 9y ago

I'd argue being able to know what you need is actually the critical part of the marriage – standing up for it is only one route – but it's the self awareness (or lack thereof) that seems to drive so many relationships (marriage and business) into the ditch. So, I think your point really was spot on. Introspection is critical.

astockwell 9y ago

Indeed, as Mark Manson puts it[1]: "For a relationship to be healthy, both parties need to be able to both give and receive rejection". Eye-opening for me, and explained many of the unhealthy relationships in my life (including employee-employer dynamics). [1] https://markmanson.net/books/subtle-art https://markmanson.net/books/subtle-art (quasi-NSFW)

TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
I am at work, but I don't give a fuck. This is the best thing I've read for a long time: "Because when we give too many fucks, when we choose to give a fuck about everything, then we feel as though we are perpetually entitled to feel comfortable and happy at all times, that’s when life fucks us."[1] 1. https://markmanson.net/not-giving-a-fuck https://markmanson.net/not-giving-a-fuck
- Bakary 9y ago
  Isn't that just repackaged Stoicism?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - belenos46 9y ago
    And I choose to feel okay about that.
    - Bakary 9y ago
      Come to think about it, it would be ironic if you didn't!
toothbrush 9y ago
Very strange! I recently read a similarly-titled book by a certain Sarah Knight! I think my friend meant to recommend Manson's book, and i ended up ordering and reading Knight's months ago, and only figured out now that there might have been a miscommunication. Haha, thanks HN.

bobbington 9y ago

> While many will tell you that compromise is the key to a successful marriage, I think that standing up for yourself and who you need to be usually is more important. I think you may be taking about a situation in which there is compliance but not actual compromise. Compromise involves both coming to middle ground, whereas compliance meets the needs of one at the expense of another. So I think the saying actually supports what you say.