5 ms·

I was on the verge of buying at VW when this happened to them. I will never buy a VW now. Pretty soon I'll have to stick to bikes if companies are allowed to ge

I was on the verge of buying at VW when this happened to them. I will never buy a VW now. Pretty soon I'll have to stick to bikes if companies are allowed to get away with anything. Surprised that they haven't arrested everyone involved, considering that the people from VW fled the country.

toomuchtodo 9y ago
What did you buy instead?
- braderhart 9y ago
  Nothing. I decided to wait and saved the money.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    Smart. Take advantage of the deflationary environment auto is going to experience (auto sales have peaked, EVs coming to market, etc). Also, consider a used vehicle. Used vehicle prices are being pushed down due to lots of vehicles coming off lease and subprime auto credit deteriorating simultaneously.
  - r00fus 9y ago
    This is a very important factor - there is usually an option to a) buy used b) not buy. In my case, I've decided my future vehicles will be full-electric - just waiting for the right one (hopefully in a month or two).
    - thinkling 9y ago
      What comes out in a month or two? You're waiting for the Bolt to come to your state?
      - r00fus 9y ago
        Ioniq Electric and 2017 VW eGolf - both have sufficient range including buffer for my commute (125mi).
strictfp 9y ago
I think this one runs deep and the fact that VW got caught actually means that they are one of the least guilty ones.
- linkregister 9y ago
  There was nothing especially remarkable about VW's cheating method, the students who researched this apparently just wanted to work on Volkswagens. I understand your sentiment, it feels more bad when a person or group goes to greater lengths to hide wrongdoing.
tormeh 9y ago
>I will never buy a VW now Just remember that VW is a bit like Nestle; you also have to stay away from Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Porsche, SEAT, Škoda, Ducati, MAN and Scania (not that the last two matters to you unless you're buying a bus).
twblalock 9y ago
I wouldn't have bought a VW before the scandal, either. Everyone I know who has owned one has had tons of problems with them. They spend a lot of time at the dealer for warranty service. Owners of most other brands don't have to put up with that kind of stuff. Even my friends with pre-bailout low-end GM and Ford cars haven't had as many problems.
jplayer01 9y ago
You do realize every other auto manufacturer is doing the exact same thing? VW has one of the biggest R&D divisions in the industry. If they couldn't do it, nobody else could either.
- SapphireSun 9y ago
  It's not clear that they couldn't do it. The three possibilities are: 1) They couldn't do it. 2) Their margins would be thinner. 3) Their competitors are cheating, and emissions controls reduce performance, so everyone would buy the cheating competitor. Also, everyone has dirt on everyone else. This will be a big story all of the three cases.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- linkregister 9y ago
  > You do realize every other auto manufacturer is doing the exact same thing? What makes you think that? > VW has one of the biggest R&D divisions in the industry. If they couldn't do it, nobody else could either. Do what? Make performant cars? Their gasoline (petrol) cars weren't implicated in this scandal. After the patch, the cars were still performing relatively well, losing about a second in the 0-60 time, and losing about 4mpg.
  - Arizhel 9y ago
    What I want to know is: why did they need to lose any performance or fuel economy at all? Am I missing something? My understanding is that this was all because they couldn't meet emissions targets without using a certain amount of DEF. They calculated that to do that, the customer would have to refill the DEF tank "too soon" (meaning sooner than every regular service interval at the dealership, which is at least 10,000 miles). So the simple fix is, in my mind: make the car use a lot more DEF so that it can generate the power and economy advertised, but the DEF tank will have to be refilled far more frequently (perhaps every 1000 miles, guessing). The driver will have to do it themselves obviously. And add some software code so that the car refuses to operate if the tank goes empty. If drivers can figure out that they need to put fuel (gas or diesel) in their car to make it go, and that it's going to die on the side of the road if they run that tank out, then they can do the same with a 2nd tank of fluid too.
johngalt 9y ago
Tbh I never would have bought a VW before and now I would consider it. They are probably the most honest of any car company at the moment. They cant risk another scandal. Likely the most undervalued by the market as well.

toomuchtodo 9y ago

What did you buy instead?

braderhart 9y ago
Nothing. I decided to wait and saved the money.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  Smart. Take advantage of the deflationary environment auto is going to experience (auto sales have peaked, EVs coming to market, etc). Also, consider a used vehicle. Used vehicle prices are being pushed down due to lots of vehicles coming off lease and subprime auto credit deteriorating simultaneously.
- r00fus 9y ago
  This is a very important factor - there is usually an option to a) buy used b) not buy. In my case, I've decided my future vehicles will be full-electric - just waiting for the right one (hopefully in a month or two).
  - thinkling 9y ago
    What comes out in a month or two? You're waiting for the Bolt to come to your state?
    - r00fus 9y ago
      Ioniq Electric and 2017 VW eGolf - both have sufficient range including buffer for my commute (125mi).

strictfp 9y ago

I think this one runs deep and the fact that VW got caught actually means that they are one of the least guilty ones.

linkregister 9y ago
There was nothing especially remarkable about VW's cheating method, the students who researched this apparently just wanted to work on Volkswagens. I understand your sentiment, it feels more bad when a person or group goes to greater lengths to hide wrongdoing.

tormeh 9y ago

>I will never buy a VW now Just remember that VW is a bit like Nestle; you also have to stay away from Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Porsche, SEAT, Škoda, Ducati, MAN and Scania (not that the last two matters to you unless you're buying a bus).

twblalock 9y ago

I wouldn't have bought a VW before the scandal, either. Everyone I know who has owned one has had tons of problems with them. They spend a lot of time at the dealer for warranty service. Owners of most other brands don't have to put up with that kind of stuff. Even my friends with pre-bailout low-end GM and Ford cars haven't had as many problems.

jplayer01 9y ago

You do realize every other auto manufacturer is doing the exact same thing? VW has one of the biggest R&D divisions in the industry. If they couldn't do it, nobody else could either.

SapphireSun 9y ago
It's not clear that they couldn't do it. The three possibilities are: 1) They couldn't do it. 2) Their margins would be thinner. 3) Their competitors are cheating, and emissions controls reduce performance, so everyone would buy the cheating competitor. Also, everyone has dirt on everyone else. This will be a big story all of the three cases.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
linkregister 9y ago
> You do realize every other auto manufacturer is doing the exact same thing? What makes you think that? > VW has one of the biggest R&D divisions in the industry. If they couldn't do it, nobody else could either. Do what? Make performant cars? Their gasoline (petrol) cars weren't implicated in this scandal. After the patch, the cars were still performing relatively well, losing about a second in the 0-60 time, and losing about 4mpg.
- Arizhel 9y ago
  What I want to know is: why did they need to lose any performance or fuel economy at all? Am I missing something? My understanding is that this was all because they couldn't meet emissions targets without using a certain amount of DEF. They calculated that to do that, the customer would have to refill the DEF tank "too soon" (meaning sooner than every regular service interval at the dealership, which is at least 10,000 miles). So the simple fix is, in my mind: make the car use a lot more DEF so that it can generate the power and economy advertised, but the DEF tank will have to be refilled far more frequently (perhaps every 1000 miles, guessing). The driver will have to do it themselves obviously. And add some software code so that the car refuses to operate if the tank goes empty. If drivers can figure out that they need to put fuel (gas or diesel) in their car to make it go, and that it's going to die on the side of the road if they run that tank out, then they can do the same with a 2nd tank of fluid too.

johngalt 9y ago

Tbh I never would have bought a VW before and now I would consider it. They are probably the most honest of any car company at the moment. They cant risk another scandal. Likely the most undervalued by the market as well.