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And if you want to see examples of how government run healthcare (or anything else) can fail, just look at the history of atrocities of public psychiatric hospi

And if you want to see examples of how government run healthcare (or anything else) can fail, just look at the history of atrocities of public psychiatric hospitals.

mistermann 9y ago
Or visit emergency in most any Canadian hospital.
- mabbo 9y ago
  I live in Toronto. I've been to the ER here. We were seen promptly, given the right care, and paid no bill. The efficiencies gained by not wasting time on unneeded treatments, not having a billing department and not paying million dollar CEO compensations, these outweigh, in my opinion and experience, any gains we might have via privatization.
  - mistermann 9y ago
    4 to 8 hour waits are fairly routine from what I've heard (Western Canada anyways). Not advocating privatization, just pointing out that the Canadian system is far from the utopia that many Canadians tend to suggest (when the topic is socialized medicare in an international forum.....when the topic is discussed within Canada, many people's opinions deteriorate significantly.)
    - mabbo 9y ago
      Well, the Western provinces are very Conservative and don't want to properly fund their health care system. It saves them money on taxes, at the cost of their health. It's a choice they make. If you ask me, their governments do this so that they can argue "See? this is broken! We need to privatize!"
      - mistermann 9y ago
        Are you pointing this out as a vulnerability of the public model?
        mabbo 9y ago
        Oh, definitely. It's probably it's biggest catch- you have to have a people who want to pay the taxes needed to fund it, knowing that in the long run they'll save money. But that requires long term thinking, which we're bad at as a species...
        mistermann 9y ago
        This article suggests spending is fairly uniform across provinces, with the west not really standing out as spending less, Alberta being even higher, and I know there are long wait times in Alberta. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/conference-board-of-canada-alberta-health-care-spending-deficit-1.3645646 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/conference-board-of-ca... So money seems not to be the problem. I'm pro-single-payer, but I also have a very large philosophical problem with the fact that people who would like to choose to spend their discretionary income on extra/better/faster healthcare are not allowed to. If I've worked my ass off my whole life, I don't think I should have to wait in line behind someone who sat on the couch eating chips their whole life. I'm happy to pay his bill, just don't make me wait in line behind him. There should be additional resources for those of us willing to spend additional money.

And if you want to see examples of how government run healthcare (or anything else) can fail, just look at the history of atrocities of public psychiatric hospitals.

mistermann 9y ago

Or visit emergency in most any Canadian hospital.

mabbo 9y ago
I live in Toronto. I've been to the ER here. We were seen promptly, given the right care, and paid no bill. The efficiencies gained by not wasting time on unneeded treatments, not having a billing department and not paying million dollar CEO compensations, these outweigh, in my opinion and experience, any gains we might have via privatization.
- mistermann 9y ago
  4 to 8 hour waits are fairly routine from what I've heard (Western Canada anyways). Not advocating privatization, just pointing out that the Canadian system is far from the utopia that many Canadians tend to suggest (when the topic is socialized medicare in an international forum.....when the topic is discussed within Canada, many people's opinions deteriorate significantly.)
  - mabbo 9y ago
    Well, the Western provinces are very Conservative and don't want to properly fund their health care system. It saves them money on taxes, at the cost of their health. It's a choice they make. If you ask me, their governments do this so that they can argue "See? this is broken! We need to privatize!"
    - mistermann 9y ago
      Are you pointing this out as a vulnerability of the public model?
      - mabbo 9y ago
        Oh, definitely. It's probably it's biggest catch- you have to have a people who want to pay the taxes needed to fund it, knowing that in the long run they'll save money. But that requires long term thinking, which we're bad at as a species...
        mistermann 9y ago
        This article suggests spending is fairly uniform across provinces, with the west not really standing out as spending less, Alberta being even higher, and I know there are long wait times in Alberta. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/conference-board-of-canada-alberta-health-care-spending-deficit-1.3645646 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/conference-board-of-ca... So money seems not to be the problem. I'm pro-single-payer, but I also have a very large philosophical problem with the fact that people who would like to choose to spend their discretionary income on extra/better/faster healthcare are not allowed to. If I've worked my ass off my whole life, I don't think I should have to wait in line behind someone who sat on the couch eating chips their whole life. I'm happy to pay his bill, just don't make me wait in line behind him. There should be additional resources for those of us willing to spend additional money.