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On the one hand, I cannot help but feel for this person - Facebook, without an explanation, did significant damage to this person's career. At least that's the

by krylon 9y ago

On the one hand, I cannot help but feel for this person - Facebook, without an explanation, did significant damage to this person's career. At least that's the way he paints it (though he mentions a rule in his mailbox that deleted mail from facebook automatically, so there might have been a warning and all that - we'll never know). On the other hand, well, that is precisely what some people warned us of - give a single company that much power, and it will inevitably be abused, be it by malice or incompetence. But it is not easy to give any useful advice, because there is basically no alternative to facebook - you can go with the flow or stay away from it. But there is not "something like Facebook without all the problems that come with it being a single large profit-driven corporation". The only solution I can think of is for lots and lots of people to pool their money and start a non-profit Facebook. And even then, I am not overly optimistic, because by now the network effect is far too strong.

dvfjsdhgfv 9y ago
You can slightly mitigate this particular problem mentioned in the article (the author used it to manage FB pages): I always use at least 2 personal accounts for managing a FB page. One is actively used whereas the other one is just a backup in case something happens to the first one. Redundancy is always important, also in social media.
- tajen 9y ago
  How did you create 2 fb accounts? Don't they ask for phone number confirmation?
  - rwmj 9y ago
    I don't think so. I have 3 accounts (I never use any of them, or FB at all, these days, but they are all still active). None of them are in my real name, but all have plausible-sounding names.
  - dvfjsdhgfv 9y ago
    I have several private FB accounts. I created them when text message verification wasn't required. But if I had to do it now, I'd have bought a couple of cheap SIM cards and still set it up the same way. I feel it's important to split your account into several ones instead of using groups of friends as recommended by FB. It's harder to profile and track you, you have more freedom and privacy in expressing yourself, you mitigate several risks etc. Only one of these accounts has my real name - I log in every couple of weeks and just accept invitations (if I care to). The other ones use common names to protect my privacy. For example, I have a separate account for reviews. Reviews are important tool for consumers to influence the quality of service/product. While I don't want to hide behind a fake name when writing a review, and if asked I can reveal my identity to the organisation in charge of the product/service, I definitely don't want everyone to see what products/services I'm using. That's just one example - if you have to use social media, do it in such a way you have at least some control in this unequal battle.
Jaruzel 9y ago
> The only solution I can think of is for lots and lots of people to pool their money and start a non-profit Facebook. See https://diasporafoundation.org/ https://diasporafoundation.org/ Not that they've actually made any sort of dent in the problem - as you say, the network effect is just too strong.
- fattire 9y ago
  Sometimes the only way to win is not to play at all. If you want to contact me on Facebook about that... well, I never had an account, and I am surviving... somehow. BTW https://mastodon.social https://mastodon.social is making some headway. I see a lot of security people have switched to it.
  - reitanqild 9y ago
    Isn't that a twitter clone? (My point is that IMO twitter was the most useless of all the mainstream social networks until snapchat arrived. I reached this conclusion by seing that you can get to twitter functionality from both facebook, instagram and google+ just by removing features and introducing limitations.)
    - c22 9y ago
      When Twitter was launched Facebook didn't have a news feed and Google+ was non existent.
    - AlexandrB 9y ago
      > My point is that IMO twitter was the most useless of all the mainstream social networks I Twitter is the most honest social network. Everything is public, the end. Unlike Facebook's "privacy" settings.
Asooka 9y ago
The actual solution would be something like "pool all our money, then execute a hostile takeover of Facebook, kick the entire board, and pivot the company to a nonprofit business model". Until then, well... https://xkcd.com/743/ https://xkcd.com/743/
- kaybe 9y ago
  I don't fully understand the point this comic is trying to make. Can someone give me their perspective please?
  - EliRivers 9y ago
    It says you gave up your ownership (and the control that goes with it) for convenience, and now the new owners are doing things you don't like with what used to be yours.
CyberTrekker 9y ago
Not only is that addage showing its age, even though it's as applicable now as it was from its point of first usage, but I would suggest it's a disgrace that humans both think and act in such a manner. In other words, just because it's free shouldn't mean the user should be the product. I realize a lot of people will not agree with me, however I tend to think way beyond the general human conception and as a consequence hold to a very different perspective.
- krylon 9y ago
  > just because it's free shouldn't mean the user should be the product I agree with you that that should not be the case. When I look at all the good things human beings have accomplished over the millennia, I cannot help but think that we can do better than this if we set our mind to it. But life is not the way it should be (IMHO) in so many different levels in so many different ways I would not even know where to begin counting.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
Broken_Hippo 9y ago
Folks have tried starting alternatives to facebook: I think the real problem is that facebook is more similiar to a phone company that only connects its users to others that have the same phone company. It was the only game in town for a while, so this has made it into a near-monopoly. If facebook was required to have some level of across-platform access, this might level the playing field and give us actual choice. Unfortunatly, I think this will take legislative action to accomplish. Until then, luck and time might change the course of things.
- krylon 9y ago
  > If facebook was required to have some level of across-platform access That would be very interesting, and I think it would be a good idea. But I imagine it would be rather hard to pull of on the technical side, even if Facebook full-heartedly supported such an effort, and I don't want to begin to think of the kind of pressure we would have to put on our politicians to create such a law without making humongous mess out of it.
- davidcbc 9y ago
  Facebook has never been the only game in town. It has just been and continues to be the best game in town.
  - leni536 9y ago
    And the best by being the largest...
    - hashhar 9y ago
      Orkut and MySpace were both a lot larger than when Facebook started. Facebook did some great things and innovated during their early years. But yeah, nowadays they can just coast by being marginally better than any new product.
    - davidcbc 9y ago
      "People use it" is a pretty important feature for a social network though. Whatever replaces Facebook will have to be "cool" enough to get people to actually want to use it. "Facebook but with better privacy" just isn't cool, so the average person isn't going to bother.

by krylon 9y ago

dvfjsdhgfv 9y ago

You can slightly mitigate this particular problem mentioned in the article (the author used it to manage FB pages): I always use at least 2 personal accounts for managing a FB page. One is actively used whereas the other one is just a backup in case something happens to the first one. Redundancy is always important, also in social media.

tajen 9y ago
How did you create 2 fb accounts? Don't they ask for phone number confirmation?
- rwmj 9y ago
  I don't think so. I have 3 accounts (I never use any of them, or FB at all, these days, but they are all still active). None of them are in my real name, but all have plausible-sounding names.
- dvfjsdhgfv 9y ago
  I have several private FB accounts. I created them when text message verification wasn't required. But if I had to do it now, I'd have bought a couple of cheap SIM cards and still set it up the same way. I feel it's important to split your account into several ones instead of using groups of friends as recommended by FB. It's harder to profile and track you, you have more freedom and privacy in expressing yourself, you mitigate several risks etc. Only one of these accounts has my real name - I log in every couple of weeks and just accept invitations (if I care to). The other ones use common names to protect my privacy. For example, I have a separate account for reviews. Reviews are important tool for consumers to influence the quality of service/product. While I don't want to hide behind a fake name when writing a review, and if asked I can reveal my identity to the organisation in charge of the product/service, I definitely don't want everyone to see what products/services I'm using. That's just one example - if you have to use social media, do it in such a way you have at least some control in this unequal battle.

Jaruzel 9y ago

> The only solution I can think of is for lots and lots of people to pool their money and start a non-profit Facebook. See https://diasporafoundation.org/ https://diasporafoundation.org/ Not that they've actually made any sort of dent in the problem - as you say, the network effect is just too strong.

fattire 9y ago
Sometimes the only way to win is not to play at all. If you want to contact me on Facebook about that... well, I never had an account, and I am surviving... somehow. BTW https://mastodon.social https://mastodon.social is making some headway. I see a lot of security people have switched to it.
- reitanqild 9y ago
  Isn't that a twitter clone? (My point is that IMO twitter was the most useless of all the mainstream social networks until snapchat arrived. I reached this conclusion by seing that you can get to twitter functionality from both facebook, instagram and google+ just by removing features and introducing limitations.)
  - c22 9y ago
    When Twitter was launched Facebook didn't have a news feed and Google+ was non existent.
  - AlexandrB 9y ago
    > My point is that IMO twitter was the most useless of all the mainstream social networks I Twitter is the most honest social network. Everything is public, the end. Unlike Facebook's "privacy" settings.

Asooka 9y ago

The actual solution would be something like "pool all our money, then execute a hostile takeover of Facebook, kick the entire board, and pivot the company to a nonprofit business model". Until then, well... https://xkcd.com/743/ https://xkcd.com/743/

kaybe 9y ago
I don't fully understand the point this comic is trying to make. Can someone give me their perspective please?
- EliRivers 9y ago
  It says you gave up your ownership (and the control that goes with it) for convenience, and now the new owners are doing things you don't like with what used to be yours.

CyberTrekker 9y ago

Not only is that addage showing its age, even though it's as applicable now as it was from its point of first usage, but I would suggest it's a disgrace that humans both think and act in such a manner. In other words, just because it's free shouldn't mean the user should be the product. I realize a lot of people will not agree with me, however I tend to think way beyond the general human conception and as a consequence hold to a very different perspective.

krylon 9y ago
> just because it's free shouldn't mean the user should be the product I agree with you that that should not be the case. When I look at all the good things human beings have accomplished over the millennia, I cannot help but think that we can do better than this if we set our mind to it. But life is not the way it should be (IMHO) in so many different levels in so many different ways I would not even know where to begin counting.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

Broken_Hippo 9y ago

Folks have tried starting alternatives to facebook: I think the real problem is that facebook is more similiar to a phone company that only connects its users to others that have the same phone company. It was the only game in town for a while, so this has made it into a near-monopoly. If facebook was required to have some level of across-platform access, this might level the playing field and give us actual choice. Unfortunatly, I think this will take legislative action to accomplish. Until then, luck and time might change the course of things.

krylon 9y ago
> If facebook was required to have some level of across-platform access That would be very interesting, and I think it would be a good idea. But I imagine it would be rather hard to pull of on the technical side, even if Facebook full-heartedly supported such an effort, and I don't want to begin to think of the kind of pressure we would have to put on our politicians to create such a law without making humongous mess out of it.
davidcbc 9y ago
Facebook has never been the only game in town. It has just been and continues to be the best game in town.
- leni536 9y ago
  And the best by being the largest...
  - hashhar 9y ago
    Orkut and MySpace were both a lot larger than when Facebook started. Facebook did some great things and innovated during their early years. But yeah, nowadays they can just coast by being marginally better than any new product.
  - davidcbc 9y ago
    "People use it" is a pretty important feature for a social network though. Whatever replaces Facebook will have to be "cool" enough to get people to actually want to use it. "Facebook but with better privacy" just isn't cool, so the average person isn't going to bother.