4 ms·

High Times: When does self-experimentation cross the line?

30 points by Hooke 9y ago

taxicabjesus 9y ago
There was a shortage of nitrous oxide last fall... Airgas' Florida plant had an explosion, and the canned whipped cream manufacturers had to cut their production. Xenon is an anesthetic too; I think pure nitrogen just knocks you out. My cousin-in-law is an anesthesiologist, maybe I'll ask him about it. http://www.ada.org/en/publications/ada-news/2017-archive/january/fda-issues-shortage-notice-for-nitrous-oxide http://www.ada.org/en/publications/ada-news/2017-archive/jan...
- theoh 9y ago
  Nitrogen makes up the largest part (80%) of breathable air, and the body just ignores it. It's the lack of oxygen that knocks you out.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - vkou 9y ago
    You can actually get high on nitrogen. This is a serious problem that SCUBA divers face, and is also the reason for why the deepest dives have to use exotic breathing gas mixes, instead of compressed air. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_narcosis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_narcosis
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
pmoriarty 9y ago
There's an interesting book that delves further in to this: Who Goes First?: The Story of Self-Experimentation in Medicine https://www.amazon.com/Who-Goes-First-Self-Experimentation-Medicine/dp/0520212819/ https://www.amazon.com/Who-Goes-First-Self-Experimentation-M...
loblollyboy 9y ago
That article ended super abruptly
- rubatuga 9y ago
  I was hoping for an actual analysis into where we should draw the line for self-experimentation, and not end with an anecdote
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
  Agreed! Wtf was that, I was just getting into it. Hey Jacob Roberts, finish your article!
- ada1981 9y ago
  Yes, he really crash landed this. then again, what is to be expected of someone whose only experience with Nitrous is one time at the dentist?
jerrylives 9y ago
I would give anything to try the acid that was made by Owsley
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
empath75 9y ago
It crosses the line from experimentation to 'abuse', imo, when you start experiencing negative consequences, and continue to 'experiment'. I've been self-experimenting with caffeine for almost my entire life.
- andrewl 9y ago
  This may be apocryphal, but it's said that a friend warned Voltaire coffee was slow poison. Voltaire responded that it must be, because he had been drinking it for fifty years.
brandall10 9y ago
It's unfortunate Alexander Shulgin[1] wasn't mentioned - more or less he's the person most closely associated w/ MDMA and self experimented with it and some 200+ other compounds he synthesized - many done w/ a group of like minded chemists/researchers at Berkeley during the 60/70s. Reports of those experiences in his books are credited with innovating the 'trip report' used at places such as Erowid... which is more or less the gold standard for the modern-day psychonaut. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Shulgin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Shulgin
- nom 9y ago
  People like Hoffman and Shulgin are real heroes. It's unfortunate that most of the substances they discovered are largely ignored by the medical community simply because they are used recreationally. I have high hopes for halluzinogenes like LSD or DMT though, I feel like they're getting more and more accepted, e.g. for treating PTSD, depression, addiction and other mental illnesses of that kind. I recently read about DXM, and still have no idea how this stuff is legal in most countries. In Germany, you can buy 1g for 10€ over-the-counter, without prescription or ID. It's a messed up world we live in.
  - evincarofautumn 9y ago
    Most people I know who’ve taken large doses of psychedelics, including myself, are convinced of their incredible potential for treatment of mental issues. The problem is that they can be…unpredictable. The last time I had a large dose of psilocybin mushrooms, it was a difficult experience, but afterward I began to take better care of myself—drinking less alcohol, spending more time with friends and family, enjoying the outdoors, being less generally anxious about work, life, and death. It really changes your personality. Those effects remained strong for several months and noticeable for about a year afterward. Definitely not a thing to be trifled with—and I’ve seen firsthand the rare case of a psychotic episode brought on by careless use of psychedelics—but I can’t believe we’re not using this stuff medicinally or trying to develop more reliably therapeutic analogues. (I did once meet a woman who does ayahuasca-assisted addiction treatment therapy, but that’s far from common, and even less predictable.) I’ve been asked for ID when buying cold medicine that happens to contain DXM. I don’t understand why people take that stuff recreationally, though, other than that it’s available. Even an ordinary cough-suppressant dose of 10mg is overwhelming to me.

30 points by Hooke 9y ago

There was a shortage of nitrous oxide last fall... Airgas' Florida plant had an explosion, and the canned whipped cream manufacturers had to cut their production. Xenon is an anesthetic too; I think pure nitrogen just knocks you out. My cousin-in-law is an anesthesiologist, maybe I'll ask him about it. http://www.ada.org/en/publications/ada-news/2017-archive/january/fda-issues-shortage-notice-for-nitrous-oxide http://www.ada.org/en/publications/ada-news/2017-archive/jan...

theoh 9y ago
Nitrogen makes up the largest part (80%) of breathable air, and the body just ignores it. It's the lack of oxygen that knocks you out.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- vkou 9y ago
  You can actually get high on nitrogen. This is a serious problem that SCUBA divers face, and is also the reason for why the deepest dives have to use exotic breathing gas mixes, instead of compressed air. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_narcosis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_narcosis
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]

pmoriarty 9y ago

There's an interesting book that delves further in to this: Who Goes First?: The Story of Self-Experimentation in Medicine https://www.amazon.com/Who-Goes-First-Self-Experimentation-Medicine/dp/0520212819/ https://www.amazon.com/Who-Goes-First-Self-Experimentation-M...

loblollyboy 9y ago

That article ended super abruptly

rubatuga 9y ago
I was hoping for an actual analysis into where we should draw the line for self-experimentation, and not end with an anecdote
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
Agreed! Wtf was that, I was just getting into it. Hey Jacob Roberts, finish your article!
ada1981 9y ago
Yes, he really crash landed this. then again, what is to be expected of someone whose only experience with Nitrous is one time at the dentist?

jerrylives 9y ago

I would give anything to try the acid that was made by Owsley

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

empath75 9y ago

It crosses the line from experimentation to 'abuse', imo, when you start experiencing negative consequences, and continue to 'experiment'. I've been self-experimenting with caffeine for almost my entire life.

andrewl 9y ago
This may be apocryphal, but it's said that a friend warned Voltaire coffee was slow poison. Voltaire responded that it must be, because he had been drinking it for fifty years.

brandall10 9y ago

It's unfortunate Alexander Shulgin[1] wasn't mentioned - more or less he's the person most closely associated w/ MDMA and self experimented with it and some 200+ other compounds he synthesized - many done w/ a group of like minded chemists/researchers at Berkeley during the 60/70s. Reports of those experiences in his books are credited with innovating the 'trip report' used at places such as Erowid... which is more or less the gold standard for the modern-day psychonaut. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Shulgin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Shulgin

nom 9y ago
People like Hoffman and Shulgin are real heroes. It's unfortunate that most of the substances they discovered are largely ignored by the medical community simply because they are used recreationally. I have high hopes for halluzinogenes like LSD or DMT though, I feel like they're getting more and more accepted, e.g. for treating PTSD, depression, addiction and other mental illnesses of that kind. I recently read about DXM, and still have no idea how this stuff is legal in most countries. In Germany, you can buy 1g for 10€ over-the-counter, without prescription or ID. It's a messed up world we live in.
- evincarofautumn 9y ago
  Most people I know who’ve taken large doses of psychedelics, including myself, are convinced of their incredible potential for treatment of mental issues. The problem is that they can be…unpredictable. The last time I had a large dose of psilocybin mushrooms, it was a difficult experience, but afterward I began to take better care of myself—drinking less alcohol, spending more time with friends and family, enjoying the outdoors, being less generally anxious about work, life, and death. It really changes your personality. Those effects remained strong for several months and noticeable for about a year afterward. Definitely not a thing to be trifled with—and I’ve seen firsthand the rare case of a psychotic episode brought on by careless use of psychedelics—but I can’t believe we’re not using this stuff medicinally or trying to develop more reliably therapeutic analogues. (I did once meet a woman who does ayahuasca-assisted addiction treatment therapy, but that’s far from common, and even less predictable.) I’ve been asked for ID when buying cold medicine that happens to contain DXM. I don’t understand why people take that stuff recreationally, though, other than that it’s available. Even an ordinary cough-suppressant dose of 10mg is overwhelming to me.