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A meta comment... the blog post has the tag "Filter Bubble" which might be ironic because Facebook stories on HN and similar tech sites will be overwhelmingly n

by jasode 9y ago

A meta comment... the blog post has the tag "Filter Bubble" which might be ironic because Facebook stories on HN and similar tech sites will be overwhelmingly negative. As a matter of fact, I have never seen a positive Facebook-as-social-networking-site story on HN. (To clarify, there were a few positive Facebook stories about their various open source projects but not about the social networking function.) For instance, if I consider a random grandmother who logs into Fb to see her photos of grandkids and catch up on other retirees, she's probably not going to write an blog post saying Facebook is a cancer. She feels Facebook enhances her life. If you lecture her on swapping out Facebook time with meeting people in real life, she'll say her grandchildren are in another city and you're an insensitive idiot. I don't have a Facebook account nor am I a Facebook sociology expert but I wonder if this forum (filter bubble) gives a massively warped picture of how Facebook adds value to peoples lives. (Especially the people who are not programmers or techies.)

pdelbarba 9y ago
All things in moderation I suppose. I don't have an issue with Facebook's basic premise, just the emergent behavior of it's community and what the managing company has become. When I used it, it had both positive and negative outcomes, like many things. I just found that many of those around me were causing serious self through overuse of the platform. I think it is a social parallel to alcohol. Somewhat helpful for meeting new people, not so helpful as a replacement for a social life. The problem occurs when a public mega corporation is managing the entire flow of this product though. Imagine if every bar in your town was owned by Walmart and they were hell bent on keeping everyone engaged as often and for as long as possible, data mining and optimizing all your interactions. People would probably see that as a bad thing.
- tpae 9y ago
  I agree. I also don't like the fact that my "likes" are being sold. One of my friend took a snapshot of an ad featuring my "like" an ad about "Asian Dating" website... How embarrassing!
- CodeMage 9y ago
  Or, to take your alcohol metaphor closer to what Facebook tries to be, imagine if Budweiser was actively striving to curate all the content you consume, to be your main source of news, to be your main channel of communication with other people and to track all your habits as much as it can, all so they could get you to drink as much Budweiser as they could make you.
  - tarboreus 9y ago
    And then the CEO of Budweiser runs for president.
CodeMage 9y ago
Facebook is a lot more than what you portray in your comment. A random grandmother who logs into Facebook to see photos of her grandkids could get that same value from many other sources: Google Photos, Instagram and just plain old e-mail come to mind immediately. I closed my Facebook account this year, precisely because Facebook ended up consuming too much of my time with bullshit I shouldn't be spending time or energy on, instead of providing value you mention. Yes, it does say something about me and how I choose to spend my time and react to content on Facebook, but it also says something about Facebook's algorithms. Whenever people tell me "well, Facebook algorithms simply react to your inputs", I feel that they're forgetting that you could design an infinite number of algorithms that take the same set of inputs and produce different outputs. There are people behind those algorithms. There's human intent behind them, just as there's human intent behind other Facebook's practices people criticize. In short, we're not criticizing Facebook-the-simple-photo-sharing-app, we're criticizing people who made Facebook into a complex machine designed to cash in on some of the darker aspects of human nature.
- notacoward 9y ago
  > a complex machine designed to cash in on some of the darker aspects of human nature Like the US government. As for algorithms, why single one out? Google, Twitter, and Hacker News all create algorithmic filter bubbles. What's the alternative? Getting rid of the algorithms and going back to direct human manipulation of the content we see? We already have Fox News for that, and it's not an improvement. The algorithm is part of the experience, which is why it's not at all true that our hypothetical grandma could get the same value from Google Photos. Who are you to say that their opinion of the value they receive is worth less than your opinion?
webwanderings 9y ago
Facebook does for that grandmother what Email could not. But that still doesn't make Facebook all a saint. In alternate reality, children and grandchildren should be calling her often on possibly Skype or better services. They should be emailing her their pictures. But above probably proves that by now, Facebook is not running their business for grandmother or her kids. Hence, the cancer.

by jasode 9y ago

pdelbarba 9y ago

All things in moderation I suppose. I don't have an issue with Facebook's basic premise, just the emergent behavior of it's community and what the managing company has become. When I used it, it had both positive and negative outcomes, like many things. I just found that many of those around me were causing serious self through overuse of the platform. I think it is a social parallel to alcohol. Somewhat helpful for meeting new people, not so helpful as a replacement for a social life. The problem occurs when a public mega corporation is managing the entire flow of this product though. Imagine if every bar in your town was owned by Walmart and they were hell bent on keeping everyone engaged as often and for as long as possible, data mining and optimizing all your interactions. People would probably see that as a bad thing.

tpae 9y ago
I agree. I also don't like the fact that my "likes" are being sold. One of my friend took a snapshot of an ad featuring my "like" an ad about "Asian Dating" website... How embarrassing!
CodeMage 9y ago
Or, to take your alcohol metaphor closer to what Facebook tries to be, imagine if Budweiser was actively striving to curate all the content you consume, to be your main source of news, to be your main channel of communication with other people and to track all your habits as much as it can, all so they could get you to drink as much Budweiser as they could make you.
- tarboreus 9y ago
  And then the CEO of Budweiser runs for president.

CodeMage 9y ago

Facebook is a lot more than what you portray in your comment. A random grandmother who logs into Facebook to see photos of her grandkids could get that same value from many other sources: Google Photos, Instagram and just plain old e-mail come to mind immediately. I closed my Facebook account this year, precisely because Facebook ended up consuming too much of my time with bullshit I shouldn't be spending time or energy on, instead of providing value you mention. Yes, it does say something about me and how I choose to spend my time and react to content on Facebook, but it also says something about Facebook's algorithms. Whenever people tell me "well, Facebook algorithms simply react to your inputs", I feel that they're forgetting that you could design an infinite number of algorithms that take the same set of inputs and produce different outputs. There are people behind those algorithms. There's human intent behind them, just as there's human intent behind other Facebook's practices people criticize. In short, we're not criticizing Facebook-the-simple-photo-sharing-app, we're criticizing people who made Facebook into a complex machine designed to cash in on some of the darker aspects of human nature.

notacoward 9y ago
> a complex machine designed to cash in on some of the darker aspects of human nature Like the US government. As for algorithms, why single one out? Google, Twitter, and Hacker News all create algorithmic filter bubbles. What's the alternative? Getting rid of the algorithms and going back to direct human manipulation of the content we see? We already have Fox News for that, and it's not an improvement. The algorithm is part of the experience, which is why it's not at all true that our hypothetical grandma could get the same value from Google Photos. Who are you to say that their opinion of the value they receive is worth less than your opinion?

webwanderings 9y ago

Facebook does for that grandmother what Email could not. But that still doesn't make Facebook all a saint. In alternate reality, children and grandchildren should be calling her often on possibly Skype or better services. They should be emailing her their pictures. But above probably proves that by now, Facebook is not running their business for grandmother or her kids. Hence, the cancer.