4 ms·

> why does SoftBank invest so much money in existing companies, instead of doing something a la YCombinator? IIRC, Japan isn't particularly culturally friendly

by noodle 9y ago

> why does SoftBank invest so much money in existing companies, instead of doing something a la YCombinator? IIRC, Japan isn't particularly culturally friendly to startups. That probably surfaces itself in the leadership's business decisions.

Razengan 9y ago
> Japan isn't particularly culturally friendly to startups. It's quite the contrary. Japan, or at least its entertainment industry and pop culture, is full of entire franchises started by minor, independent artists and coders, aka doujins [0]: > amateur self-published works, including manga, novels, fan guides, art collections, music and video games. ... Of the $1.65 billion of the Otaku industry in 2007, doujin sales made up 48% ($792 million). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dōjin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dōjin
- cthalupa 9y ago
  That's a far cry from VC funded startups. There isn't a real equivalent to Silicon Valley, for example.
  - Razengan 9y ago
    Conversely, you could say the US has no real equivalent to the doujin scene. WHY is even a physical Silicon Valley still necessary? One could argue that the doujin way is a better launchpad for a wide variety of ideas than VC-funded startups: People, especially young people including many females, create something from the comfort of their bedrooms, without any pressure (like many software/game devs of the 1980s), other people enjoy and even improve their products, and if they get popular enough then big companies may turn them into proper franchises. Why doesn't the US foster that kind of environment more? Why does everything have to be a company with millions of dollars? In fact, most of the Western internet is actually hostile to young artists and developers..
    - dragonwriter 9y ago
      > Why doesn't the US foster that kind of environment more? More than...what, exactly? Vastly more people do what the startup scene dismisses as "lifestyle" small businesses than VC-funded startups.
    - mikejmoffitt 9y ago
      If these artists/creators get picked up (which is in many of their interests), they are faced with pressure to deliver, bedroom or not.
      - Razengan 9y ago
        Of course, but how can we encourage that first crucial phase, an environment that allows ideas to form, incubate and flourish? How do we recreate the bedroom coder and garage inventor culture of the 80s that got this industry and world here in the first place? We don't even have devices that you can code on out-of-the-box, anymore...
  - enugu 9y ago
    Yes, then the cause is specific to sector, not the country as a whole.
- ekianjo 9y ago
  > doujin sales made up 48% You forgot to mention it's mostly because doujin is pornographic in nature. That's why it's so big. Now if you were to classify pornography in a separate category, well the numbers would look much lower.
  - Razengan 9y ago
    Vocaloid culture, Touhou, Cave Story.. immediately come to mind as doujin that became a hit in the world at large and aren't pornographic in nature. There are many that Western audiences never even know of. Many visual novels too, though they may include sex, aren't really focused on porn, just like the many Hollywood movies that contain sex scenes are not "porn."
- bsder 9y ago
  You are directly contradicted: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14400642 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14400642 http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/
mikekchar 9y ago
I'm not so sure about that. Being CEO of a startup is not as glamorous as it is in the west, but money is available here for startups. After I finished my contract teaching English in Japan, I was torn between going back to programming or opening a brewery. Money would have been no problem on the brewery side. Even just casually exploring the situation, I had more interest than I knew what to do with. I was even offered a building to house my brewery. As some other people have mentioned, I suspect SoftBank has a specific goal in mind and is buying up companies that give them particular capabilities. They're not just investing with the goal of getting a return. What their ultimate goal is, I'm not really sure, though.
- noodle 9y ago
  Everything I've read and everyone I've talked to about it have told me that there's a perception of startups being perceived as crazy, crazy risky with real life implications (finding housing without a salaried job is supposedly difficult). And the money being available is primarily available to older, less risky-seeming business owners with safe business plans, not younger ones doing interesting things. YMMV, though, as I've only read and discussed the topic and not experienced it myself.
  - mikekchar 9y ago
    Well... I'm definitely older and had a safe business plan :-) I don't see that as being hostile to startups, though. I suppose if we remove the pejorative language, then I can understand better. There is definitely a different set of values, so different kinds of startups will be built here. Interestingly, one of the reasons I decided not to open a brewery is similar to frustrations I've heard about in the west. You can't (or couldn't -- I think these laws are in the process of being changed) build a really small brewery legally. You had to produce at least 600 hl a year. I couldn't self-finance that kind of operation (I might be able to brew that quantity, but there is no way I would have time to sell it). I would have no trouble raising up to $1M but nobody willing to fund that is looking for a modest return. They want to see expansion plans right off the bat. So this means having plans to build a large factory in the next 10 years. I like brewing beer. I don't want to organise a large industrial factory :-) Probably the same reason I'm still a programmer and not running my own startup...

by noodle 9y ago

Razengan 9y ago

> Japan isn't particularly culturally friendly to startups. It's quite the contrary. Japan, or at least its entertainment industry and pop culture, is full of entire franchises started by minor, independent artists and coders, aka doujins [0]: > amateur self-published works, including manga, novels, fan guides, art collections, music and video games. ... Of the $1.65 billion of the Otaku industry in 2007, doujin sales made up 48% ($792 million). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dōjin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dōjin

cthalupa 9y ago
That's a far cry from VC funded startups. There isn't a real equivalent to Silicon Valley, for example.
- Razengan 9y ago
  Conversely, you could say the US has no real equivalent to the doujin scene. WHY is even a physical Silicon Valley still necessary? One could argue that the doujin way is a better launchpad for a wide variety of ideas than VC-funded startups: People, especially young people including many females, create something from the comfort of their bedrooms, without any pressure (like many software/game devs of the 1980s), other people enjoy and even improve their products, and if they get popular enough then big companies may turn them into proper franchises. Why doesn't the US foster that kind of environment more? Why does everything have to be a company with millions of dollars? In fact, most of the Western internet is actually hostile to young artists and developers..
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > Why doesn't the US foster that kind of environment more? More than...what, exactly? Vastly more people do what the startup scene dismisses as "lifestyle" small businesses than VC-funded startups.
  - mikejmoffitt 9y ago
    If these artists/creators get picked up (which is in many of their interests), they are faced with pressure to deliver, bedroom or not.
    - Razengan 9y ago
      Of course, but how can we encourage that first crucial phase, an environment that allows ideas to form, incubate and flourish? How do we recreate the bedroom coder and garage inventor culture of the 80s that got this industry and world here in the first place? We don't even have devices that you can code on out-of-the-box, anymore...
- enugu 9y ago
  Yes, then the cause is specific to sector, not the country as a whole.
ekianjo 9y ago
> doujin sales made up 48% You forgot to mention it's mostly because doujin is pornographic in nature. That's why it's so big. Now if you were to classify pornography in a separate category, well the numbers would look much lower.
- Razengan 9y ago
  Vocaloid culture, Touhou, Cave Story.. immediately come to mind as doujin that became a hit in the world at large and aren't pornographic in nature. There are many that Western audiences never even know of. Many visual novels too, though they may include sex, aren't really focused on porn, just like the many Hollywood movies that contain sex scenes are not "porn."
bsder 9y ago
You are directly contradicted: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14400642 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14400642 http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/

mikekchar 9y ago

I'm not so sure about that. Being CEO of a startup is not as glamorous as it is in the west, but money is available here for startups. After I finished my contract teaching English in Japan, I was torn between going back to programming or opening a brewery. Money would have been no problem on the brewery side. Even just casually exploring the situation, I had more interest than I knew what to do with. I was even offered a building to house my brewery. As some other people have mentioned, I suspect SoftBank has a specific goal in mind and is buying up companies that give them particular capabilities. They're not just investing with the goal of getting a return. What their ultimate goal is, I'm not really sure, though.

noodle 9y ago
Everything I've read and everyone I've talked to about it have told me that there's a perception of startups being perceived as crazy, crazy risky with real life implications (finding housing without a salaried job is supposedly difficult). And the money being available is primarily available to older, less risky-seeming business owners with safe business plans, not younger ones doing interesting things. YMMV, though, as I've only read and discussed the topic and not experienced it myself.
- mikekchar 9y ago
  Well... I'm definitely older and had a safe business plan :-) I don't see that as being hostile to startups, though. I suppose if we remove the pejorative language, then I can understand better. There is definitely a different set of values, so different kinds of startups will be built here. Interestingly, one of the reasons I decided not to open a brewery is similar to frustrations I've heard about in the west. You can't (or couldn't -- I think these laws are in the process of being changed) build a really small brewery legally. You had to produce at least 600 hl a year. I couldn't self-finance that kind of operation (I might be able to brew that quantity, but there is no way I would have time to sell it). I would have no trouble raising up to $1M but nobody willing to fund that is looking for a modest return. They want to see expansion plans right off the bat. So this means having plans to build a large factory in the next 10 years. I like brewing beer. I don't want to organise a large industrial factory :-) Probably the same reason I'm still a programmer and not running my own startup...